Brian: In this episode, we've got the two-wheeled pilot, Redux Part 2.2.02b.de, and we've got Gear Chick talking about city gear, urban versus expressway. I cannot wait to hear what she's got to say.

Robin: That's going to be good.

Brian: Opening announcements, news, corrections, banter.

Robin: Announcements. So Brian and I have some new fun stuff we like to do, little pieces of subject matter that appear in the show over the course of discussion. And whenever we slap that together after an episode, you can go to radio.tro.bike. That's radio.tro.bike. And you'll end up at a YouTube playlist, which is just a mess of mentions, music, and general mayhem. At this current moment, it's nothing but our random music of the minute because I went ahead and went and found it. Next up, we are no longer on YouTube as a podcast. I'm just not going to do it. They are not a podcast platform.

Brian: No.

Robin: It does not use feeds. It does not update the details. It is a video platform playing audio. I'm just not going to do it. So we're no longer on the YouTube podcast platform, but you know, we've got our TRO YouTube channel, which is where it used to be anyhow. So go there, watch our videos, goof around, whatever. But if you're looking for our podcast, use a podcast player. Also had to fix our feed once more. The PHP file on the server that operates our podcast feed is uber complex. There's a lot of different code in there from different request models for the website. So it's not all the podcast. It's articles, article versions of the podcast and your reader. And then it's also the podcast feed. Well, the podcast feed busted up pretty good again after I had fixed it. I finally just said, no, no. I surgically removed it and placed it in its own independent area. And it's now back up and running again. So everything is good. So fixer feed. It was broken. moved the entire system to its own dedicated folder and cranked out 500 lines of code to make sure you, our listeners, were situated. That is it for the announcements.

Brian: I'm glad your nerding was, uh, you didn't break it, right? It just broke. It just happened.

Robin: I never know anymore.

Brian: Yeah, that's true.

Robin: Somebody in IT over there is like, let's just change this variable here to make them think it's not cached information. And that's busted up really good. As for corrections, big shout out to Matt Berry over at nonamegarage.wi on Instagram. Noticed a big production mistake on my part that got fiximicated. I'm sorry, fix-demicated. Thank you. Our listeners, they are the QA and the QC. We had re-announced 404 Clutch Not Found twice, and there wasn't one. It was all wonky, so I fixed it.

Brian: Okay, good to know.

Robin: In the news, Twisted Road, their most recent newsletter, is about what defines sport touring. One of our sponsors, who knows we have the lead sheet on this topic, they picked a lot of fine-tuned points from that article and published it as a newsletter. So I'm feeling kind of cool about that. That's kind of nice.

Brian: Yeah.

Robin: And then linked to an Instagram post that discusses in depth. I don't know if this is being prototyped or it's an actual manufacturing plan or anything of that nature. It's a tiny 120 pound engine, 450 horsepower, no pistons.

Brian: Okay.

Robin: 16 kilograms. The Astron Omega-1. Rotary concept suddenly disappeared without a trace at some point. Astron Aerospace is back with something even crazier, apparently. It's called the H2 Starfire, and it doesn't work like any engine anybody's ever seen. Instead of pistons, it uses two spinning chambers, one in front of the rear. Each is rotating, performs different strokes at the same time. So the two-stroke concept in four-stroke motif where... As something is happening, both things are happening simultaneously. Combustion on one side, exhaust on the other.

Brian: Yeah, this is a rotary engine, and I'm not clear on how they say they've solved the efficiency and thermal issues that they're talking about here. But if they have, that'd be big. And the ceiling issues, they're talking about all these, you know, basically rotary engines suffered from emissions issues because you basically don't get enough combustion chamber scouring or cleaning in between cycles, etc. Mazda did for a long time. They also had ceiling issues, you know, why they burned oil, all the stuff. And they say they've sold all the stuff. Hey, let's hope.

Robin: They actually market this as being able to stay cool. Four strokes happening every single rotation. Is that a rotary typicality? 11 by 15 inches, up to 5,000 RPMs, almost no heat buildup, 101 degrees.

Brian: Hey, go for it. Hang a gearbox on the back and make a motorcycle out of it, If you want our attention.

Robin: Yes, please. Yeah. Bring it to our world and let's make this happen. That's everything I got.

Brian: Okay. There's this mysterious picture of like some toolkit. What the heck is that? Looks like a bicycle kit to me, but I don't know.

Robin: Every morning I control click a folder in my browser and it opens up everything in multiple tabs of, hey, let's just have a quick scan. One of which is Facebook Marketplace. It just said cycle tool kit. It didn't say bicycle. It didn't say motorcycle. But I was looking at this and I thought, how cool is that? I mean, it's got a lot of the stuff that you talk about bringing with the hex key set, a couple of adjustable wrenches. But then I noticed the suspension adjuster also has a built-in chain tool and all this stuff. And I thought, would you see any value in this? Do you estimate that that's something that's like, oh, that's pretty good?

Brian: Well, the concept is great, but yeah, it's got a lot of bicycle-only tools in it. There's a pedal wrench, there's a spoke wrench, there's a chain whip thing is for changing the cartridges on the rear cluster. And there's a little, there's tire levers for bicycle tires. That's a bicycle kit. But the concept of motorcycle kits out there, no one has really put together a good one yet. You know, cruise tools gets close, but no one's really put together a real, like something really good that's bike specific. Unless you count, BMWs come with a pretty decent kit.

Robin: It's not bad.

Brian: I gotta, I gotta say, not bad. Yeah.

Robin: Yeah, even a smart mount, because they use the foam of your seat to compress the screwdriver to place before it lodges itself into the hook point.

Brian: Yeah, what he said. But I do like the idea of like a little bespoke kit that is for the particular bike. Some cases there are some special things that are needed. In some cases you just need ordinary stuff. That's kind of the holy grail, isn't it? Just kind of a, here is what I'm going to need for this bike and nothing else. I don't know if we're there yet. And no two writers agree on what their kit should include. But I like the concept.

Robin: To save face, what really grabbed me was when I looked at what appears to be a rear monoshock suspension sag adjuster. And I saw that it had chain bits attached to the back of it. I thought, well, that just makes sense. We talk a lot about how to scale things down. We don't want to sacrifice reliability in a tool for the sake of portability. But it's always better when it's a combination of things. If one tool serves multiple purposes well, that's the golden result. That's what we want. So this thing, when I noticed that the chain was wrapped around the back end of what appears to be a suspension adjusting wrench, I thought, well, okay, good. Two things have now been compressed down to one. I was like, I got to ask him what this is. Turns out it's a bicycle kit, but you know what? We can always take our cues from those guys.

Brian: Just don't wear the tight pants and... Yeah. We don't need that.

Robin: Moving right along. Personal moments. Random song in the minute. I'm going to give you all two. One is good before the ride. The other is good for after. Before the ride, you're going to want Molly by Eka Vandel. Holy shit, what a badass rock tune. And then after that, put on Lazy Moon by Groove Armada and just let it go.

Brian: Nice. I become cooler simply by being in the presence of...

Robin: Our good friend Domino sent me an outstanding video of European police officers doing what they do best through urban environments on two wheels. And I got to say, I'm not very fast. Anyway, I am not... Slow as hell. I am of average skill. My motorcycling skills are perhaps just slightly above average. because, wow, did you watch this?

Brian: I have seen similar videos and...

Robin: Damn!

Brian: Those guys ain't right.

Robin: Yeah, man. I will solve problem. Go vroom. Okay, way to go. Nice. Glad to know they're out there. Glad to know that I should... No, don't even try. Just stop. Accept the ticket.

Brian: Be nice in Europe.

Robin: Brian, what is good?

Brian: Work trip to California last week. We got a motorcycling element. We'll get to that. Got back. we absolutely totally got away with it was a total scam we got away with a with a nice dual sport ride on saturday on the last day of february that doesn't happen in my area in indiana usually our season opener is about the middle of march and it's you know like 50 degrees anyway we had a fantastic day dual sport riding out hitting the dirt roads gravel roads getting filthy roads are still gross so we didn't take the newer bikes or anything like that nice, It was raining by dark and snowing on Sunday. Totally got away with it. Slipped it in. It was great.

Robin: Nice.

Brian: So trip to California. Talked about this earlier. Our last episode had a great time. Rented Corporal America. It's a, because Corp, you know, Corp was the, good old Corpy was about the, it was one of the cheaper bikes I could find. I was able to get the price to just under what it would cost to rent a minivan. So I was able to justify this and that the optics wouldn't be too terrible. Corporal America, older V-Strom with a very special masking tape and bed liner, stars and stripes paint job, bald tires, but never mind that. The owner has replaced the tires. I did point it out when I took it back and he was like, oh yeah, you're renting Corporal America. Yeah, I have confidence.

Robin: Thank Brian for the fact that you will return the bike properly with all your appendages.

Brian: Jeevy hard bags, all that stuff. I didn't have much time for recreational riding, but it was just great. Santa Clara, Concord, Livermore, and Sacramento.

Robin: You got to high five Angel Marie Kendall too, right?

Brian: I got to be in the presence of Angel Marie Kendall. New rider has some great questions. Had some great questions for me. and I said, hey, let's set up a microphone and hear these on a podcast. How about, the funny thing is having this weird topic of conversation was kind of fun. People really enjoyed, oh, you showed up on this kind of frowzy bike, you know, and so it was a good topic of conversation, great conversation starter. And I think they kind of liked the idea of some of the things outside the box a little bit. So yeah, you and Maggie and Joanne are just so jealous. You know, I got to meet Angel Murray. It was great. We had, you know, And also, yeah, I had lunch with her and her boss, and we talked business. We talked motorcycles, too, a little bit. And one of the things we talked about is one day we all have to get together, and we all have to go ride.

Robin: Yes.

Brian: Indiana, New Mexico, Colorado, California, somehow, somewhere, some when, we have to make it happen. And then I ended the trip, got up early, got across San Francisco, got to the coast. The guy where I rented the bike from basically lives very close to the coast in Pacifica. I was there at the coast on the beach for the sunrise, which is kind of weird. You know, the sun's coming from behind you. It's the West Coast. And just got to relax for a little while, a few hours, get some breakfast and so forth, return the bike, get to the airport and get home. Got to see all the crabbers out there, crabbing and all that. So yeah, it was a great trip. And doing it on two wheels just added a lot of, I don't know, added some stress relief, added a nice dimension to it as well. Again, it was rented through Twisted Road. It was a great platform, had a great experience.

Robin: Very good. Glad you had a good time. Glad you got to ride. That actually is something that I want for you because I know that you're dealing with that freaking winter in Indiana and the long day that's showing up on your face right now. So welcome home.

Brian: Questions from the wild. These are questions I've actually heard, I've actually seen, and they kind of really don't deserve more than a few words an answer. Questions from the wild. Quick answers. One word. You ready? Is this stuff floating around in my gas a problem? Yes. You got rust in your gas you're gonna have problems all right hey you want to see my crash video hell no no don't want to see that and generic one is how do i get more faster you know what do i need a pipe or something more gas that's two words okay one word ride relax relax nice i like that one and now for 404 clutch not found, Featuring the brave questions of new writer, Angel Marie Kendall. Angel has willingly stepped into the spotlight so that other new writers might know they're not alone. Sometimes she'll interview motorcycle instructors from all over the world and otherwise, we'll just get overly verbose with our own in-house philosophical blatherings.

Angelmarie: I was invited to a kickstand and coffee event on the 14th. Are you going? 14-minute group ride. Am I confident to ride with a group? Don't do that yet.

Brian: That's one of the rare pieces of advice we will actually give. Group rides are for later.

Angelmarie: How do you know when you're confident enough to ride with a group?

Robin: Okay, there it is. Group rides.

Angelmarie: Give me the bad news. Give me the bad news. Just wait.

Robin: Because if they don't know how to stagger formation or if they're passing on the inside of a turn or they're like wheeling around you, it's like, yeah, wait till you find your flock.

Brian: Yeah. Group rides, it's very, very difficult and you have to be very deliberate and mindful to avoid groupthink and all the weird stupidity that happens. So you don't know who you're getting in with is one thing. Figure it out on your own and figure out all these bike control things long before you worry about even really experienced riders. The thing I've seen the most on vintage bike rides. Everybody gets together a couple times a year. They're very excited to see each other and they leave their kickstands down a lot. I'm sorry, sidestands. They leave their sidestands down a lot. Sorry, instructor Dean. Anyway, we see this a lot, you know, where you have, even in a small group or whatever, people just get excited to be with their friends. You know, we're on these great roads. You know, there's some dude showing me where the good roads are, blah, blah, blah. And they get excited and they forget things and they skip things. And so you have to have your routine, your safety, your control, your checklist, your independence, all these pilot things. Yeah, you have to have your independence. You have to have that down. And then also be very careful about who you ride with. It can be real easy to realize, okay, this group is doing things I don't like. I don't want to be here. And where am I? I've got to get Google Maps going. I know where I am.

Angelmarie: Why are they doing wheelies up there?

Brian: Don't know. Don't know.

Robin: The trick is you can ride any way you want, any way you want. It's all, it's all gravy. It's all good. Stunting is freaking cool if you choose the correct environment.

Brian: Yes. Yeah. And really standing by the road or pulling bikes out of ditches, talking to cops, it just sucks. It's no fun. I just don't like to be around when these things happen.

Angelmarie: I'm definitely not going then. That's in seven days. I don't think I'm going to be.

Brian: Go to the hangout and talk to people. Definitely.

Robin: Okay. You get graciously invited by a responsible, kind person that wants to hang out with you and go for a sweet, awesome ride where you can have confidence in the people around you. Yeah. If you feel good about it, have at it.

Brian: Okay.

Robin: Just remember your staggered formation. No groupthink. There's no we. Be you. And I hope that came across the right way. I didn't need to, like, generalize.

Angelmarie: No, I agree. I think I'm going to do that. I'm going to go to the meetup. I want to feel it out and meet the people, but I'm not going to go on the ride. That's a 45.

Brian: And this is called Two-Wheeled Pilot. It's the Redux Part 2.22.02.b.de. All right. So the idea here is pretty simple. I'm not a pilot. I want to make that clear. I am not a pilot. I do not know how to fly airplanes.

Robin: We have done this segment before. People have heard these things.

Brian: Well, if they're longtime listeners, it's been a couple of years. All right.

Robin: Please carry on.

Brian: But I am kind of an aviation nerd. And one of the things is that there are a lot of risk management concepts and tools and mindsets and mental tools from aviation that I think motorcyclists could learn from and steal a little more often because both motorcycling and flying airplanes can turn you into a smoking crater pretty quickly if you get it wrong. And I think there's a lot of overlap in the mindsets needed for both things. And there's a lot of overlap between pilots and riders too, I've noticed. Maybe we'll bring this back. We've got a lot more material or maybe we'll see a squirrel or forget all about it but let's see what happens so today's topic is crew resource management, managing people managing yourself managing others. Managing communications and things like that. All right, so in an airplane, this means managing and making use of your human resources, which is your first officer if you're a captain. In commercial airplanes, normally you have two pilots and you need to rely on each other and work together. And you also have to work with air traffic control, you know, other airplanes on the ground, things like that. So there's a difference there. In riding, you're alone in your helmet and no one outside a circus is team controlling a motorcycle, but your interactions with others can make riding better and safer and more fun, or they can lead to those smoking craters that we want to avoid. What it boils down to is how do you not do the dumb thing, especially when other people are around? Because when other people are around is kind of a lot of times when dumb things happen. And you don't want any dumb on you. It splashes, all right? For example, groupthink is a big problem when you're on a group ride, when you're with other people, when you're with your buddies. You want to go fast. You want to impress everybody. You get excited. You forget your kickstand.

Robin: Well, there's your problem right there. Having something to prove.

Brian: That's one problem, yeah. And things like how not to give away authority. In an airplane, just because someone is a captain doesn't mean that they're correct all the time. When you're riding a motorcycle, one of the things, we've said this before, one of the deadly things you might hear is, I need to keep up or I'm having trouble keeping up. You're allowing someone else to be the authority of where you're going and how fast you're going with your motorcycle.

Robin: You've relinquished control of self.

Brian: Another issue with people, besides, you know, people, is you can distract each other. You know, you're worrying about what other people are doing rather than not paying attention to what you're doing. You know, it's the old, ride your own ride, bucko. You know, it's easy to say, but it's hard to do. But that's part of it is don't worry about what other people are doing.

Robin: Also, when you do begin to do it, it can be difficult to understand what the boundary lines are for that. It recently became a more popular topic than I expected for people that we've been riding with for years, who have backed way off, which no harm there at all. But at the same time, they've backed off enough that they would like to only see you disappear into a corner, that kind of distance. They've regulated that as their safe zone because they just may or may not know any better. when really the safe distance between you and any object based on the speed at which you're riding is a big deal.

Brian: Yeah.

Robin: As a skilled rider, it should take you a minimum of three seconds to pass the same object as the rider ahead of you. Pick a light post. If you're doing 180 million miles an hour, you should be able to still count one, two, three, I just passed that moon, you know? If you're going a half mile an hour, it should be one, two, three, I've arrived at the same ant as when I started counting when they passed that ant whatever it is the point is ratio is everything so it's more about the time buffer you allow yourself for braking and reaction is a huge part of safe following distance it doesn't mean I'm going to wait until they're in another zip code it doesn't mean I'm going to see if I can touch tires ride your own ride, find yourself within it and adjust accordingly.

Brian: Yeah. One thing I've heard from people, and I think this is a perfectly fine practice, is I'm going to wait until you're out of sight. Basically, they don't want any distractions ahead of them in their field of vision, unless it's, you know, on a flat road and it's five miles of nothing and they can't avoid seeing you. But basically, if you're in twisty roads, I do know some people who are just like what you said. The idea is basically to avoid any possible distraction.

Robin: Outside influence.

Brian: Yeah, they want to ride like they're riding by themselves. And that's kind of the holy grail here, I think, a lot of it. And that way you're not giving away authority. You're not distracting each other. I can say, though, that having someone ahead in view can be a source of valuable information. It can also be a source of distraction like anything else.

Robin: Or confusion.

Brian: Or confusion. But yeah, I can get information, some kinds of information the information you cannot get is how fast or how far i can lean or what's in that corner from the rider ahead of me but what i can see is things like okay his brake light's not on so robin's apparently doing okay or things like you know you can only get very general things and and also like i've noticed things like dust coming up from tires like oh this road's kind of dusty or you can see things like that you can get little cues like that Right. But there's also a big difference between that and things you really should not depend on, like lean angle or body position, things like that.

Robin: Entry speed.

Brian: Entry speed. Yeah, I don't, it's nearly impossible to see that from behind, but it's also like it's not useful information. It doesn't tell you what you and your bike are going to be doing that in the next second. Yeah.

Robin: Brian has, dare I say, a very different breaking and cornering strategy than what some people might be used to. It's not atypical. Many of us have seen it before, but if you're not ready for how he's going to take a corner and you think that his pace represent what you should be doing, you're in for a hell of a surprise when you have to deal with your cornering strategy at a pace where that's not beneficial or even worse, real trouble. Pucker moments are a sign of reasons to change something. It needs to be adjusted in your EQ. So use those moments when they happen, if they happen.

Brian: Fear, anger, yeah, don't do that.

Robin: Use them as an excuse to make an adjustment.

Brian: Adjust something, yes. One of the things I heard once, somebody said to me, I just look at what you do and subtract 10%. I'm like, please don't do that.

Robin: I mean, if somebody's in front of you, can't ignore that. That's the deal. You are there. You are visible. So you are a reference and you and I have ridden together for years. So there's a certain do-si-do going on. It's like, I'm going to corner my way. You're going to corner your way. I know how you operate. I give you a very solid three to four seconds ahead unless we're on wide open road. But that doesn't change the fact that anybody who tells you what I do is I take what you do and I dial it down 10%. They don't know what kind of day you were having when they decided that's the percentage. Now, if you cut that to 50% and make it just obnoxious, mellow out, that's maybe a different matter. I find that excusable. But beyond that 50% mark, it's like, look, just be in charge of your machine, be in charge of yourself, and understand how you make your decisions well enough to make them safely and spirited, if that's how you're feeling.

Brian: Riding together, riding well together for thousands and thousands of miles. I've chased you, you chased me. That's a lot of fun. But yeah, it's one of those things you have to be very choosy about what information you pick up and use from the rider in front of you.

Robin: We understand that the other guy is not a variable. They're just there.

Brian: They're just there. They're just part of the landscape. There's a blue flash up there and it's just doing what it's going to do. I don't know. It kind of adds to the fun, but it's also something you have to be very careful with. The other categories of this, and I think we see this on writing and so forth, is how do you listen to and watch out for each other? And I alluded to this a little bit earlier, but things like if you hear anger, if you hear people are talking about being scared or almost lost it, or you're hearing a lot of these phrases, you know, when you stop to get gas or get lunch or whatever, there may be something you have to address in person, interpersonally, not while you're on the bike. Pull over, take the earplugs out, talk.

Robin: This is not a blanket statement for all things unexpected. Sometimes you might enter a quarter that looks like it's got incredible grip and you feel a slight wash, but you find your traction back and you didn't expect that. It didn't feel good, but that is not the same thing. What we're talking about is you're in your head and unaware of the horizon that's moving around you at a rapid pace while you're on a machine with a tank full of flammable liquid in between your knees. There's a very different scope of perspective. Watching out for each other is a big deal. You can see it in the riding. You can see it in what you have determined to be their normal for one given day, one given hour even. And then if there's any sudden change, you might ask him, are you doing all right?

Brian: I'll give an example. In an undisclosed location in New Mexico, we were coming down a mountain. And basically, I started getting leg cramps bad. I was going back and forth on, you know, this was a road. It was a road worth.

Robin: Altitude and dry air and lots of curves. Yeah. As Brian calls it, that's a dirt road with pavement under it.

Brian: This was a road that deserved all your attention and all your mojo. I had to back off and Robin immediately noticed, like he immediately noticed in under a minute, definitely. And, you know, we ended up pulling over, ended up, you know, getting some water and walking around and shaking it off. But Annette was from in front and Robin was leading and I was following him and all of a sudden I'm not there I'm much further back because I'm sticking my leg out going you know yeah your.

Robin: Left foot is shifting against your will

Brian: Yeah, So things like, you know, watching out for each other. Well, yeah, but yeah, you can see like, okay, oh, I can see when someone got spooked when they're riding. That's true. Yeah, I can see those things. I can see the guys behind me are starting to squirm around, stick their legs out. And, you know, okay, it's time to stop.

Robin: Take a breather.

Brian: Things like that. And again, you can't expend a lot of attention, you know, behind you when you need to look ahead of you. But this kind of thing, looking out for each other, being considerate, just basic humanity.

Robin: There is a bizarre reality, though, about riding when you're looking in a mirror and checking behind you where you can still ride forward. This isn't an advertisement to do this, but when you're on a bike and you're running lead, check in your mirror. It's almost as though you know what's happening with the road ahead peripherally. That's a very strange thing. There's a lot of time spent looking in the rear view mirror to check on people when you are leading a ride. So it's not something you just do. It's a skill that you obtain over time.

Brian: Yeah, it takes a while to learn how to do that without riveting your attention for more than a tenth of a second, you know.

Robin: Just drilling your eyesight back there.

Brian: Yeah, that's a skill that takes a long time to learn and takes a lot of practice to get that right. Same as using like GPS or routing and so forth. You can only spare like little microseconds of attention for that screen or for the people behind you or for your mirrors.

Robin: And the people that put the GPS up high so that they can see it better. Personal opinion, not a good idea. You are now shining a box of light into your face where the road used to be the priority. Keep it low, have the reaction time to look at it and understand what you're looking at, then look forward again as quickly as possible. It's a useful tool. It's a benefit to riding, but don't make it an active distraction.

Brian: This is a digression, but that's a problem in airplanes too. You got to get your head outside the cockpit. You can't sit there because airplanes now have like really nice, pretty screens and GPSs and terrain and all this stuff.

Robin: You got Pac-Man up in that thing.

Brian: Yeah, you got Pac-Man up in there. So if you're on a VFR day, visual flying, get your head outside the cockpit, get your head looking up, get down. It's more fun, by the way. I agree. Stop just following the pink line on your GPS. On motorcycles, miss the turn. It's okay. Don't be staring at your GPS and just miss the turn and turn around if you need to. I do it all the time. I'll pull over, I'll poke at my screen if I need to, rather than trying to do it while I'm in motion. But yeah, that's another aviation concept. Keep your head in the cockpit. Yeah, outside.

Robin: I have an idea here. Speaking of digressions, we don't have a history piece tonight. How about we bring in Joanne for a little bit, and then we're going to return this and pick up in the bold print under related.

Brian: Sounds good. Joanne's knocking on the door. Let her in.

Robin: That means it's time for The Armory, brought to you by GearChick.com.

Joanne: Chinos, they are stretchy and light because they're just to wear on your scooter or your motorcycle around town. You're not supposed to leave your town and go on the freeway with them. Slim fit. It worked out really well for my body type. And they're $200. Yeah, I don't know how I'm going to be able to ride in anything else at this rate because they're just the most comfortable thing I've ever worn in my life.

Robin: So you've landed on the product of all products that is the ultimate.

Brian: You better buy two because they're going to stop making them. You know this. You know this.

Joanne: I only need one.

Brian: I love this product. Sorry, it's gone.

Joanne: Look, the products can only last as long as people buy them. But yeah, they're really light, really stretchy. They're really a summer pant. And that's why I'm only going to wear them, you know, in 65 and over. But thankfully, I am at the point in my midlife where I'm not cold at 65 anymore. I used to be very cold at 65 all the time. And now I finally am at the point where I'm, you know, 65, I'm kind of toasty sometimes. And so I can actually do that. they're class A, so that means the abrasion resistance is only rated until about 40 miles an hour, which equates to your city motorcycle lifestyle.

Robin: Urban environment.

Joanne: Yes, they are comparable to a lot of inexpensive riding jeans. It's really no different than buying a light, inexpensive riding jean because a lot of riding jeans are also only designed to wear around town. Let's be honest, the lighter and thinner your motorcycle pants are, there's a high likelihood that they're only designed at class A level. Because if, The materials right now, technology's advanced in 20 years. Let's be honest. There are a plethora of denim options and pant options now that we didn't have 20 years ago. But you still cannot replicate the thinness and lightness of your super light, comfortable jean to a motorcycle-specific jean that has enough abrasion resistance so you don't lose all the skin off your thighs. There are jeans that are light, but like this feels like a stretchy legging, abrasion resistance of 35 or so miles an hour, and it has hip and knee armor. Also remember that when you buy a riding pant, a casual like this, riding jean or riding cargo, a legging, if the garment has level one armor, there's a reason for that. And it's, you know, it's not because the manufacturer doesn't want you to be fully protected at level two. It's that if they're going to make you a skinny jean like this, this is a fashion pant. Let's be honest. When you look at it, it's made to look specifically like your normal casual pants. and shoving large level two protectors in there defeats the purpose of that aesthetic, you know, of the look. Because there are those of us who do want the look to be a certain way, and that's okay. You don't have to do what everybody else does, but we should have choices. When people would say things like, I don't care how I look. It doesn't matter to me how it looks on me. It's okay if you don't prioritize that. Nothing wrong with vanity. We are human. You are vain. It may not be about riding jeans, but you are vain about something because you are human. And to say you are not, you are lying. Not necessarily clothes, not necessarily looks. I don't know. It could be the phone you use. It could be the car you drive. It could be the tools you use. It could be the doctor you go to. These pants are vain. And you know what? They look amazing. When I put them on, I didn't even know I was wearing jeans or pants. They were more comfortable than my women's riding leggings that I have, a Rebbit Ellison. And they are more comfortable than those because this fabric is so light. It's very breathable. So some air gets through because it is a seven degree and up pant. It's for warm weather. It's not for cool weather. So what is really cool is because the protectors that Revit designs, they're thin, they're vented, flat, and they conform. They're not bulky. You know, when you see people walking around in their riding gear and you can see the outline of armor, the back protector sticking out, or you can see the knee protector really outlined in the pant, well, you know, that doesn't look great. Could be level two armor or it just could be cheap armor that's not really molded or shaped well. Some armor products are just not well shaped to really like fit around your elbows and your knees. So with these, the protectors are really thin. Can't even tell and it's awesome. But you can also find level two armor in AA riding jeans. So you can find like better riding jeans. You know, of course, it's going to cost you more money for 70 mile an hour riding. Like you totally can't. Everyone makes one. Climb makes one. Rubber makes one. Everyone makes that. There are multiple options for multiple kinds of riding. You could have both pairs. Like I have double A riding jeans too. Those are in my closet. And now these are in my closet for the days when I don't want to go on the freeway and I just want to go around town or whatever. And I actually think it's super cool for e-biking because e-biking is huge. People are riding stand-up scooters. So e-bikes, but also scooters, you know, the stand-up kind. Those things go 60 miles an hour.

Robin: And the most terrifying 60 miles an hour you'll ever ride.

Joanne: One of the most insane people that my husband and I have seen in Denver is a guy who rides a one wheel. You know the one wheels? Oh, yeah.

Robin: Yes.

Brian: Like in the comics.

Joanne: That man is going 60 miles an hour. He's wearing two-piece leathers, as he should, but he's skipping out on footwear. If you're listening, your Nikes are not going to... Right. You've already spent $1,000 on Dainese leathers. Let's go the extra mile and spend another $200 on better footwear because you're going to mangle your toes and your feet if you keep riding in your Nikes.

Brian: So you're running around in Crocs or...

Joanne: Just casual sneakers that are just going to come off his feet, but maybe he's saving up because he did spend on a $1,000 Dianese suit. But that here going 60 miles an hour, it doesn't matter what you're on. The fact that you're not in your vehicle surrounded by a roll cage and airbags and seatbelts and crumple zones.

Robin: Encased in Jell-O.

Joanne: Right? A chino like this is great if you buy one of those 50 mile an hour stand up scooters to go to work or you're on your awesome e-bike and you're going 45, 50 miles an hour down your local boulevard. You need abrasion resistance and impact. And this is the perfect kind of pant or outfit for people who are e-biking to work.

Robin: A beautiful summary of it is that we want to be able to go to local events on the bike. Like, we're riding someplace where we're not going to drink, but we're going to enjoy our time there. We want to look somewhat casual. The motorcycle can be a talking piece. The gear can be a talking piece. But you still look like you're blending in enough that, hey, this is my round-town clothing. I'm here to interact with people and not look like I'm always on my way back out the door. That's the trick. You're there for the event.

Joanne: Yep. And now there's so many options. You know, a category that didn't exist 15 years ago? Armored hoodies. Yeah, right. There was no such thing as an armored riding hoodie. And everyone's like, what? You're going to wear that? Yes. Just because it's in hoodie form doesn't mean it can't protect you. No, this is not 1995 anymore. There are so many great choices. In fact, you know, Evan has one. I got him a mesh riding hoodie for the summer. That has a double A rating. He could totally go ride on the freeway with that and be fully protected. He has level two armor in that and back protection. So he's as covered as he would be wearing his touring mesh jacket. It's just that aesthetically, it looks cool. And it actually is reflective. Pair that with these chinos. And there's so many hoodies now. There's pullovers. There's zip-ups. You can buy ones that look like a bomber jacket style. You can buy ones that look like paddock jackets. There's so many cool things out there now for us that didn't exist before. and all the major players make something.

Brian: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joanne: And no matter how old you are, too, these aren't just for the 20-sums. There are some really nice, casual, simple, clean options, too, if you're going to an office. There's a nice variety of product out there, so you don't have to worry about something not being appropriate, maybe, for your business casual work environment.

Robin: Similar banter at HireRevs can be found via the Gear Chick website or by emailing Joanne directly. That email address is help at gearchick.com. Thanks, Joanne. So where do we leave off here? We were just talking about a segment we've done in the past when it was just Brian and I called the two-wheeled pilot, which is how certain things in aeronautics can be applied to motorcycling. Just certain aspects of keeping track of your fellow riders. So how to not succumb to groupthink, how to not give away authority, your own authority, like using other people as an excuse on how to ride, how to not distract each other and how to listen and watch out for each other. Those topics we've discussed. And now some related topics we're coming back to let's get into that

Brian: One of the concepts and again this is for anything that might be dangerous including flying airplanes riding motorcycles construction so forth but the overall idea is a safety culture and again when you're on a group ride whether you're leading or part of it you're kind of part of a little moving culture basically clear expectations that you know around here we obey the laws of physics and that doesn't mean you You have to putt around slowly or you have to be in a formation with hand signals and a road captain and a road corporal and a whatever. You know, things like that. Everybody ride your own ride, do your own things. Don't do dumb crap is really what it comes down to. And having a culture like that and also a culture where people feel comfortable, like, hey, I've got a problem. I need to pull over. I've got a, I need to do something else. I'm tired. I need to head back early, that kind of thing. There's a lot of concepts related to that. But one of the big things in aviation is called normalization of deviance, where people do things wrong and they get away with it and they get away with it and then it bites them. And again, you can end up with a smoking crater either way. We can all think of ways that has affected motorcycling, you know, where you, oh, I get away with this. I can slide through the stop sign or I can stare at my screen and get away with it.

Robin: There's a great scene in the movie the mexican brad pitt he's on a bounty to find a gun the antithesis of fixer he's a finder who seeks rare things he's looking for this rare pistola but there's a scene where he is in a wide open desert in mexico maybe new mexico he's somewhere down south and wide open road. They pan to the right, and for miles there's nothing. And they pan to the left, and for miles there's nothing. And then he's like, okay. And he takes a step, and this bus... Out of nowhere, you know, doing 60 miles an hour. This bus just plows right in front of them, misses them. You can see how close his nose is to the side of this thing. That can happen. You think you have everything in check.

Brian: You still got to look both ways.

Robin: Do not drop your guard.

Brian: Don't drop your guard. You know, skipping safety, stuff like that. Another one you'll hear pilots talk about is get there-itis. You do dumb stuff because you're in a hurry. You got to get somewhere. And you want to get there.

Robin: You know, got to pee, got to pee, got to pee, got to pee, got to pee,

Brian: Pressure, pressure, that kind of thing, external pressures. And again, in an airplane, that can lead you to take off in weather that you can't handle. It can lead you to do dumb things, overload the plane, et cetera, and so on. In a motorcycle, I think one of the most common ones is riding when you're fatigued or you're thirsty, you're dehydrated, fatigued, dehydrated, distracted, angry, something like that. There's an acronym in aviation called I'm safe. I am safe. It's a mnemonic, and it stands for illness, medication, stress, alcohol, fatigue, emotion, or eating.

Robin: And is Joanne anywhere near me? Okay, I'm safe.

Brian: Yeah.

Joanne: You're never safe. Sometimes you're forced to ride in these conditions, and that makes it suck too. I remember getting sick after riding out to MotoGP one year, and I got sick there, and I had to ride home. I couldn't stay in a five-bedroom house on Pebble Beach by myself to get better with my friends because like 10 of us were staying in this together. And I had to ride home 100 miles sick. Went really slow and like took our time, but it did suck. And luckily I didn't have to do it at night.

Brian: You can get through a lot, just take more breaks, you know, and be really attentive to yourself and people around you. And you can get through it to a degree. It's more about good self-assessment, understanding, okay, I'm impaired in these ways. Next item on my checklist was checklists. Pilots have like an actual, either a paper list or it's on their iPad or it's electronic or whatever. But it's a list of items you go through and check before you take off, before you land, when there's emergency, things like that. But as motorcyclists, we may have like a packing list, I think is the closest we might get to a checklist. But there's also one of the things you see that happens to people when they're on a group ride, especially if they're kind of new to the whole thing. They get super excited and they forget their checklist. They forget to put their kickstand up. On vintage rides, we've had several people go around the left-hand corner and sail off into the ditch because they don't have an engine cut on really old bikes. Even just have your checklist. Just, okay, I've got my, you know, my luggage secured. I've got my wallet here. My keys are in the ignition. I've got my spare keys. I've got some sort of checklist. Go through, mentally check that you have everything and you're ready for blast off. And don't let anything derail that. If you have a disc lock, it's real common for people to forget they have a lock on their bike and...

Robin: Just destroy everything. Yeah, just...

Brian: Pilots have GUMPS, and it's gas, undercarriage, mixture power, seats belts. And it kind of means make sure you have enough gas to get you where you're going. A lot of airplanes just fly into the ground because they run out of gas. It's stupid. Endercarriage, make sure your landing gear is where it's supposed to be. Mixture and power, make sure your engine is doing what it's supposed to, seat belts and so forth. Motorcyclists have things like T-Clock was one of them. I don't know if there's another mnemonic that you instruct.

Robin: Eh, there's a bunch.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah, whatever's useful. The last one I had here for at least this part of the discussion was flight into IMC. And what that means is flight into instrument meteorological conditions. And that means if you're not trained to fly on instruments, if you're not ready for that incredible challenge of flying without being able to see anything, then you have to be super careful about the conditions you do fly in and make sure you don't go into places where the weather might change and things like that. In motorcycling, there's close analogies to that being in environments and doing things that are not just pushing your skills or whatever but are way beyond so for example mountain weather can be really challenging as joanne can tell you you know if you go up into the mountains you have to, watch the weather and make sure you're not going to end up in conditions you can't ride in or, Things like going on a ride where you've ridden around the block twice, so you're ready to do 300 miles that day. Yeah, you're not ready for this. And Julian's talking about things like fog. Go over the mountains, go over the ridge.

Joanne: You're giving me flashbacks when I was dumb and we left really late riding.

Brian: Tell me dumb stories. I love dumb stories.

Joanne: We left very late from San Francisco at like 1 or 2 o'clock to ride down to the Central Coast. And we took PCH, which is the slow route. It's the scenic route, but we should have stopped earlier to stay somewhere.

Brian: It's full, too.

Joanne: Yeah. And so we rode, we were trying to get to Pismo or Cambria, and it was dark. By the time we got to one of the twistiest sections of Highway 1 before it opened into, you know, we got down to the Best Western, you're on the ledge. You're on the two-way lane along the mountain. It was foggy and dark. I was going slow, but still, like, I'd never ridden that section in the dark. And it was not a good idea, you know, and it was cold. I could see, but not great. And so we're going really slow. But there were, like, you know, a couple of corners that I just, I probably should have gone slower. And it was a pretty sketchy ride. Should have just had better judgment to, all right, we just won't go that far. We'll just stay here instead. Today would be a completely different story. I would have stopped myself.

Robin: Brian knows a very specific story. After a situation during one of our tours, when I rode back, we arrived back at the final hotel at about 2 a.m. In a torrential downpour with a sky full of lightning, having entered a three-foot floodwaters at 60 miles an hour. We made it back. It's one of those things where you might have the skill, but that doesn't mean you're looking to use it. Decisions were made.

Joanne: Today I have much better boundaries. I don't care where I was supposed to be. I don't care what the penalty would be. I would have stopped. I'm pulling over here. I am not going any further for the chance that I could risk my life. It's not important.

Robin: This is that self-aware thing. You got to make your own individual decisions and you got to be careful about how you go about deciding which decisions you're going to make.

Brian: The absolute worst conditions I've encountered were on the Blue Ridge Parkway, North Carolina. You can go through a tunnel or over a ridge and be in fog where you literally cannot see your hand in front of you. And it can happen in seconds. So if you've been there, done that.

Robin: You're in the cloud line.

Joanne: Yeah. Also, though, if you just live along the coast of California, if you live in Pacifica, you live in South San Francisco, you live in any of the towns there, the same thing happens. and you learn very quickly what you should and shouldn't do. But now you're making me remember a time when I left late. I have a pattern. I left late from Philly riding to West Virginia to 250. Have you ever been 250 going into the mountains of West Virginia from 80?

Robin: Maybe.

Joanne: So the main interstate is 80 to go south from Reston. You can go down into the other Virginias and the southern states. Well, off 80, once you hit West Virginia, you take 250. It's just amazing. And I mean, amazing mountain ride that goes west into the mountains. And I got there after dark. I got there late.

Brian: Yeah.

Joanne: But here's the thing. I was only like 20 miles from my destination, but it was so twisty. It took me like two hours. I went like 15 miles an hour. Now that situation, I didn't have anywhere to stop because you're in the mountain. And I was riding to this awesome hotel called the Innit Mountain Quest.

Robin: Shut up.

Joanne: Total shout out. But there was nowhere to stop. Like it was either sleep on the side of the road. So I just went slow.

Robin: Oh, yeah. You had to pick your nearest point B, right?

Joanne: Right. And I pissed off a driver behind me because I was going slow. Whatever. It was twisty and tight and dark, but no fog. So I don't ride in the dark anymore.

Robin: If you're going to summarize this for the positive as we are about to begin the 26 riding season, what would you say about everything you said in a happy, shining light?

Brian: I would say, know yourself, have your personal minimums, have your limits, stick to them. Ride your own ride. Everybody's tired of hearing, but it's absolutely true. And we're trying to talk about techniques for actually how you do that. There's a lot more here, and hopefully we'll come back to it in the future. I want to thank Joanne for all the information about pants.

Robin: Pant.

Brian: We got to learn about Joanne's man pants today.

Robin: Man pant. I haven't heard the word pant so many times in anything until this day.

Joanne: It's important.

Brian: Britches, trousers. Yeah. Let's get out of here.