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Confidence Confidants
Listen in as Joanne and Maggie discuss how they became the riders they are today. Music by Rabid Neon and Otis McDonald. Download our feed here.
Transcript
As legible as we are intelligible ...
Robin: So I started riding in 2003 and technically we both started riding at the same time and we actually started on a scooter because after we got married, we went to Vegas for our honeymoon and we rented one.
Joanne: He wanted to rent one. He wanted, you know, there was some, you know, promotions coupon book in the shuttle. And so there was a coupon for like discounts on rent scooter for a day. So we rented a 150 cc two stroke from some, you know, some tour like scooter agency, whatever. So we rented it for the day and we rode up and down the strip. Back then you could easily ride up and down and stop wherever you wanted. And we went to old city Vegas. We just kind of hung out for a few hours and somewhere I have a photo of that too. And so when we came back from that, he wanted us to buy one. So a scooter. Sure. Yeah. To buy a scooter because he thought it was so much fun. I was like, yeah, I was, I guess it was fun. I don't know. It was kind of awful. I mean, we were both wearing helmets, you know, no gear, just half helmets from the scooter place. It was really hard to see because you're, there's no face shield. So it's just sunglasses and you're just tearing. I don't know if you've ridden without a full helmet before, but you know, you're just crying the whole time because, you know, your tears are just flowing from all the wind and it was just misery. Luckily he was driving, so he got the worst of it. So because of that...
Maggie: Had either one of you ever ridden a scooter?
Joanne: No. He said he rode one in high school when he went to Baja on like a senior trip and they rented scooters and rode around Mexico. But that I think he was just doing along the beach and like in a little village. He wasn't like riding. So that was technically, yeah, that was really our first experience on a two-wheeled motorized vehicle. So we bought a scooter, a different brand, and then that was going to be it. So I started riding it to work. We were living in San Francisco at the time. And if you've ever lived in San Francisco or a big city like that, scooters and motorcycles are really the best way to commute. You park cheaper. It's faster to get to work. It's way faster than public transit. So I started riding the scooter to work because it turned my hour and a half door to door into a 20 minute. And it was cheap at the time. Actually, parking at that time was 10 cents an hour. So I saved a dollar a day. It was two dollars a day. Two dollars. Yeah. One way to take the bus. So after that, I was riding that for a year and that's really kind of where it started. And then he wanted a motorcycle because I was riding the scooter. But mind you, he didn't have a job outside. He was working from home. So it's not like he had anywhere to commute. So that's why I was riding it every day. And so because of that, he wanted to buy a motorcycle. So then we bought this. So we bought a Ninja, Ninja 250. And so he rode that and I would ride the scooter to work. But then I started riding the Ninja to work. So instead of riding the scooter, I started riding the motorcycle because it was way more fun. And it just was more fun. So that's basically then it just after that, we got another motorcycle. We sold scooter. Yeah. Then it was no more, no more scooters. I mean, after that. So yeah, a year of scootering turned into 20 years of motorcycling. So basically it's his fault. That's how I got into riding.
Maggie: How about you? I don't know. You both started at the same time. Yeah, but it was his, I didn't care.
Joanne: Like I wasn't researching and reading forums and, and Googling about scooters and motorcycle models. Like I wasn't looking at any of it. He wanted to do it. I, if he had not brought it up, brought it up, never would have happened. So interesting.
Maggie: And then we wouldn't have gear chick. Exactly.
Joanne: No, really, because it was not my idea whatsoever. It was not in my radar of things I wanted to do or things I wanted to learn or, you know, goals. Absolutely not. It was something that he wanted to do. He wanted to get into motorcycling, but he's a very, you know, my husband's a very, very logical, very, you know, his ego doesn't take over. And he knew that to learn that we should start on something like a scooter and work our way up. So that's why he wanted to buy a scooter just because riding in San Francisco, it's really easy to ride a scooter. And it really made a huge difference. We, I rode that scooter. I, I rode that scooter for a year and I put about 4,000 miles on it. So I was riding it so much. It really got me used to riding hills in San Francisco and then just traffic. And that was a 50. I mean, that was a small 50 CC. And like, I don't know, today I couldn't do that again because a 50 is just too slow. It's too small. And it's kind of scary to be riding that slow next to cars that are going like 50 when they should be going, you know, 30, but no, it's totally his fault. Like completely something I can wholly blame him for. Yeah. Yeah.
Maggie: Well, I think, uh, what's your husband's name?
Joanne: Evan.
Maggie: Kevin. Thank you, Kevin. We should thank, we should thank Kevin.
Joanne: Evan with an E, not Kevin, but he gets that a lot. Wait, say that again. Sorry. Yeah. He gets that a lot. He gets Kevin a lot, but his name is Evan. Evan.
Maggie: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Joanne: Yeah. Um, yeah, I guess it's, yeah, we can thank him. Um, and yeah, I mean, we can thank him for why we're in Denver now, you know, and why we were in Philly before and it's all due to, you know, where my hobby went. Okay. Your turn. Whose fault was it?
Maggie: Well, um, let's see. I started, well, let me go back. So in college I had been on the back of a scooter and a couple of motorcycles, but, and when I got to school at the time, everyone had, um, those Honda scooters. I forget the name, but it was like, yeah. Everyone had one and I did want one, didn't have one, but sure. But you know, that was at the time. And then I didn't think about it again, um, until Robin wanted to get into motorcycling. And so he took the class, he got a bike and, but we wanted to ride together. So I got a scooter, I got a scooter. Um, my first scooter was actually the, uh, the, uh, Oh, what is it? The Honda? That's the ubiquitous one that's been made forever. Um, the elite? No, it's the one it's a step through. It looks like a little mini motorcycle. It's not an elite though.
Joanne: Oh, the Honda Cub. A Cub. Okay. So that's a moped, isn't it?
Maggie: I guess it was. Yeah. And it was in rough shape, but it worked. And so that was technically my first yeah. Moped. Um, and it was slow though, you know? And so I didn't write it that much. So then I got, uh, I got a buddy 125.
Joanne: Buddies are great scooters. Those are really reliable, easy to ride.
Maggie: Great. We still have it.
Joanne: Yeah. Buddy's a great bike. Great little scooter. I used to work at a buddy dealer. Um, yeah. Cause buddy is Kimco, right? Oh, I didn't know that. Or is it genuine? Genuine. It's Kimco or genuine? No, it's genuine. It's genuine.
Maggie: Unless it was sold to Kimco, but no, it's genuine.
Joanne: No, I used to work at a Kimco dealer. And so we had the Kimco version of the buddy. Um, both great scooters. Buddy's fantastic though. I remember them. I remember seeing them all over the city too. That's awesome. Yeah.
Maggie: Yeah. Yeah. I got a buddy 125 with a top case and of course had a windshield and we were living in the city of Chicago. So I, it was a great, yeah. I'm like your husband. I don't have an ego. I just, that was going to be it for me. I was fine. It was, you know, push and go or twist and go. Yeah. Um, but it got me used to something faster than a bicycle in traffic. Yep. Yep. And he and I would go riding together. He had a 400, a SAKA 400.
Joanne: Oh, we had a SAKA 600. That was his second bike. No. Yes. After the Ninja. So once I took over the Ninja and we sold the scooter, he bought a SAKA two, a 650. It was their sport touring. Yeah. It's basically like a fully fared SV 650 with, uh, you know, but upright and windscreen. And it was great. Actually a great twin, like 700 CC twin. It was fantastic. Really liked. I used to ride that a lot too. It was great. Even picked it up once.
Maggie: Wow. I have not really been able to successfully pick up many bikes on my own, except for the training bikes.
Joanne: It's been a minute, the MSF training bikes, but yeah.
Maggie: Um, anyway. Yeah.
Joanne: Yeah.
Maggie: Um, yeah. So I had the, so we go riding together, you know, me and my buddy him on a SAKA and, um, there was a nice route. We were living very North in Chicago. We were still in the city limits, but at the very Northern top of it.
Joanne: Yeah.
Maggie: And there was a nice route. It was basically along the Lake along Lake shore. So it was like all these beautiful houses, nice. And the speed limits of like 40 and, and, you know, there were nice little soft curves. And, um, so we would ride that a lot and it was fun, but he, no, he says that I was leaning too far on the scooter. Like I was on, you know, I'm like, I knew the limits. Cause that thing has a floor, you know, it's got a floor board. You can't lean it too far.
Joanne: Those things there's scooter racing and like Thailand and stuff. Come on Robin. Yeah.
Maggie: Come on. Well, so he said, you should, you should like think about getting motorcycle. So it's like, Oh, I'm fine. But I did take the motorcycle class, which by the way, I took a scooter class as lame as that may sound.
Joanne: I used to teach that and it's not lame riding a scooter.
Maggie: There's, there were like, yeah, there were six of us in there and two of the people were in there because they had a scooter and they had dropped it while turning. So anyways, scooters are hard.
Joanne: They're harder than people think. Cause there's no clutch. Yeah. I would, yeah. Tell people that. And then also give them some tips to like mod modulate their brake and throttle so that it was a little bit easier to ride, but it was harder to do slow speed maneuvers on your scooter.
Maggie: Yeah, I can see that. So yeah, I, I took the motorcycle class and also in between the time I took the class, the, the first, the scooter class, and then taking the motorcycle class, we had, we also had a stick shift car, so I knew how to operate a manual, you know, a clutch and all that. So by the time I took the motorcycle class, um, it was pretty easy going. Like it, it wasn't hard for me to get through the class.
Joanne: Yeah.
Maggie: Short learning curve. Yeah. Very short learning curve. So for me, it was nice. I felt like I was stair-stepping my way up to motorcycles. And then my first bike was a, you know, a Nighthawk 250, a Honda Nighthawk 250. Oh man, those were so hard to start.
Joanne: Um, I'm sure you learned a lot about your choke. Those were our turning points.
Maggie: Uh, I learned that, um, I took that to a track day. My first track day was on that.
Joanne: Yeah.
Maggie: Oh my God.
Joanne: Wow. Wow.
Maggie: And to, to the dismay of the people running track day.
Joanne: Yeah.
Maggie: Um, you know, I don't care. I don't care if those people are like, what is she doing here with the, you know, you're taking, you're taking it for the skills. So maybe the bike is not optimal, but that's not the point.
Joanne: So as long as your speeds are safe, like my only concern would be, can it go fast enough? Because it is dangerous to be going too slow on the track. Right. I imagine that bike only has like 40, 50 horsepower. I don't know. I can't imagine. I don't know. That would be my only thought about a bike like that. Um, yeah, it was to use them.
Maggie: It was, it was fine. I did. I did. All right. That's good. All things considering. I mean, it was my, it was like my first track day and it also rained that day. So, oh my God. Uh, and me not knowing enough, I was, you know, how you're supposed to sort of accelerate as you're, uh, coming out of the turn. I was doing that in puddles of water. So like two or three times I had serious death wobble because yeah. Oh yeah. It was fun. Anyway. Um, so yeah, I did a lot on that bike, but, uh, yeah, then I got a, what did I get? What my next bike was? Oh, it was the Hawk GT.
Joanne: Oh, that's such a great bike. Little 400. Did you get the 400 CC version? No, it was a six, the six 50, even still like my brother has a 400, the 400s, that little bike can, oh my God, it can go. It's got some serious. Yeah. I imagine the six 50s great too. That's an awesome bike.
Maggie: That was a cool bike. Um, and then I, Oh, I was, I was going back to the little two 50. I did a lot on that two 50. I also took an arc, the advanced writer course on that.
Joanne: Oh, nice.
Maggie: Anyway. Uh, then, um, then I, so after the Hawk GT, that's when I got the triumph. Oh, wow. And I just, and I just had that forever. And, uh, so that's where I am. And then the trend, it is also my husband's fault that I also wasn't on my radar. Like I used to think every once in a while, Oh, it was good. It would be fun, but it wasn't that much on my, you know, it wasn't really, no, it was not.
Joanne: Nope. I never even had that. I mean, maybe in a joking manner. Cause like before we got married, we lived near a high school that would have the MSF course. So you'd see them there on weekends. And like, we drive by Mike, Oh, look at them on their little motorcycles. You know, maybe we should take a class. Ha ha ha. You know, not, but not something I was ever serious about. And, and to make it even worse, like my memories, my first memories of the first time on a scooter and the first time on a motorcycle were terrifying. Like they were so scary. I'm surprised I didn't die. I vowed to never ride a motorcycle ever again after that, because my first motorcycle ride was on the back of a Jixer in the eighties. Yes. That's how old I am as a teenager with my brother. And he brought one home. He was a few years older than me. He was like a senior. He brought one home in an attempt to allow, to get my mother to let him buy it. Thank God she said no, but he brought it home. And so he picked me up from school one day. I had no idea. Did he bring a helmet? No. Was he wearing one? I don't think so. So he picked me up. I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt cause it's summer. It's hot. I closed my eyes the entire ride home. And it's like a two mile. Thank God it was only like a two mile ride home. It wasn't that far, but it was the scariest ride. It was so scary cause he was going way too fast. And I closed my eyes the whole time until it was over. I was never going to ride after that ever. I was like, I'm never doing this again. And I haven't, I've never ridden in t-shirts and nothing else. I've never ridden without a helmet. So technically it's true. Cause I was wearing sneakers, shorts, all in high school. And that's pre-helmet law. I think that was just before helmet laws in California. So neither of us were properly dressed. And my dumb brother, when he was 12, my parents bought him a 150 CC Honda elite scooter so he could ride to school. And he would drop me off at my friend's house a couple of times. I was 10 or nine, again, no helmets, pre-helmet rule. And he did it like twice. And I remember closing my eyes the whole time because it was so scary.
Maggie: Was it scary or was it that he was riding it kind of faster?
Joanne: What I remember, I was scared. Cause I was only, it was fifth grade. And I, my feet barely hit the pedals. Like I'm on the, I'm just holding on for dear life. Cause I'd never been on anything like that. So I think I was just really scared. I think he was driving fine, but it was just a scary experience to be that little. And that was like a five mile ride, probably like 15, 20 minutes across town back in the Barrett. Yes. It was scary. So after those two experiences, I had no plans to ever ride a motorcycle or even on the back of one.
Maggie: I was like, absolutely not. That's, that's usually one of the, one of the, well, at least in Wisconsin, one of the questions in the MSF class, they'll talk about what are the Wisconsin specific laws. And one of the things they ask is what are the requirements for passengers? And it's, they have to be able to touch the foot pegs.
Joanne: Yes. I barely, I think I barely did. I was really small. I was very short when I was yeah. In grade school. Yeah. It was not fun. I was like, I'm never doing that again.
Maggie: Does, is California is how our helmets required in California?
Joanne: Oh, now, but this was like the nineties. I think the laws kicked in somewhere in the nineties before, after, after I had taken these rides. Yeah. They've had helmet laws for a while now.
Maggie: Do you know, do you know the trivia about why wear helmets? Why we, where, where it came from? Um, what kickstarted them? No safety.
Joanne: Oh, in the United States you mean? No.
Maggie: Uh, it was Lawrence of Arabia. What? Yes. Okay. The ride that eventually killed him. He wasn't wearing a helmet. This was what?
Joanne: 1930.
Maggie: I see. He didn't die immediately, but they couldn't save him. And the doctor kind of looked at, okay, I guess he had serious head trauma and, uh, started looking into like motorcycles were starting to take off, I guess at that point. And so he looked at, um, people who had gotten to accidents and it's kind of where it came from.
Joanne: So the actor who played Lawrence of Arabia, is that what you mean?
Maggie: No, that the actual Lawrence of Arabia is a real person.
Joanne: I see.
Maggie: Yeah. Uh, which he is, he was in England. So not the United States, but that is sort of the, that was the incident. Yeah. It was the catalyst, the incident for where Hummel law safety came from. So this doctor suggested or recommended that people who ride motorcycles should wear helmets. Got it.
Joanne: Uh, well, yeah. I mean, I have the only times I have ever not worn a helmet. I can count on my hand. And that was twice, 20 years. I just can't do it. And they were both in parking lots. That's it. Like I've never ever ridden without my helmet. Um, one time was in my parking garage going from level one to level two. And then the other time was across the parking lot to re park my vehicle. That's it. I just can't just can't like, yeah. Um, you know, just the fact that tripping down the stairs or walking down the street and tripping can, you know, cause me to break my head open. I just can't, I'm too, my anxiety is too high. Um, yeah, no, thanks. Uh, yeah. Um, so, and even bicycling, like a girlfriend of mine had a stroke because she was out bicycling on a path and she fell off her bike, hit her head, even with her, you know, little bicycle helmet. She hurt her head, hurt her brain, had a brain injury. She was probably biking at 10 miles an hour. So that's why I know, right. Cause your head is a pumpkin. So you can have a traumatic brain injury, just tripping down the sidewalk as long as your head hits them. Um, but yeah, I, after those, after riding with him, my brother, those two times totally vowed to never do that again. And it just, yeah, just kind of worked out that, you know, that my husband really wanted something. I was totally fine with it. I wasn't against it by any means. Like I was happy for him to go take the class and learn. I was like, have a great time. I really don't care. And then, and then he, he snuck in the guys of, well, you should probably get your license because you know, in case something happens, if we're together, then you know how to drive it, which okay. Is technically good advice, but that really wasn't what he was getting at. He wanted me to get my license so that I would actually learn to ride it, like want to ride it. So he stuck me in, he suckered me in with that. And then I took the class. And then right after that, we bought the motorcycle for him anyway. So kind of way it worked. Yeah. Yeah. I posted a photo for you in the chat so you could see our scooter, our first scooter. It was a Aprilia Scarabeo.
Maggie: Oh, that's awesome. That's a great scooter. I didn't know. I didn't know Aprilia did scooters. That is great.
Joanne: Yeah. The Scarabeo, it's been around for a while. I don't know that they're still importing them, but they were back in the early 2000s, really popular in San Francisco. That scooter is so good because it's also was one of the few with a 15 inch front tire, front wheel, instead of a tiny 12 inch donut wheel. So having big wheels like this was really important because the roads are bumpy in San Francisco. It's not all smooth. So it definitely made riding around so much easier. And the suspension is disc brakes front and rear. So they probably just had much, it was just a much more modern option and less expensive than a Vespa. So that's the other reason why we got this scooter because it was priced better, better suspension, better wheels, better braking, just a better machine. And we could both fit on it reasonably. I mean, we only did that like a handful of times before I said, I'm never doing this again because this is so uncomfortable on the back of a 50cc scooter. Yeah. I can't believe it.
Maggie: 15 inch wheels. It has real wheels. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. The buddy has 10 inch wheels. Exactly. Little donuts. And the first time I took it on Lakeshore drive. So I'm going at 65.
Joanne: You're going at 65?
Maggie: Yeah. Death wobble. Oh my God. And I can get it to 65.
Joanne: No, don't do that.
Maggie: But it's like, it's not a good idea. No, it's not a good idea.
Joanne: Don't do that. You're going to die. Don't. Yes. That's exactly why we didn't want. Yeah. We wanted a sturdier scooter and it was just great. And then I just ended up, you know, the awesome thing is the dealership we bought that is where I ended up getting a part-time job there selling gear on weekends. So it's kind of where it all started. But yeah, I had that scooter for a year. It was great. And the cool thing was after I started working at this dealer, I would see it. Other people had bought it. I sold it to this guy. He clearly sold it to someone else and they sold it again because I would see it show up at the shop a few times with different people. So that scooter lived on well after me. It was great. Like by the time I saw it again, it had 10,000 miles on it. So people were riding it. It was so great to see people were riding that scooter. It was just fantastic.
Maggie: Speaking of the price of Vespa, I also wanted a Vespa. And I was like, Oh, no, thank you. I didn't even, yeah, I didn't even. And I think I also looked at Stella, which is, that's a genuine Stella. And that's a clutch. I was like, no, I don't want a clutch.
Joanne: That's like the one clutch. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Oh yes. I remember saying that to Evan. I was like, I'm fine. I don't need a clutch. I'm good. I love my scooter. You just enjoy that Ninja. He's like, all right. You know, I'm like, I don't need this. This is great. And then, yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, I, I guess I have to thank him. I, yeah. Yes, I do. I think so.
Maggie: I think that he opened up a whole new path. It's like those sliding mirrors, right? He opened up this whole path that you didn't know.
Joanne: Yes. No, he definitely, definitely like complete reluctance and yes, complete reluctance and complete and total just anti, just resistance. Cause I just had, I didn't really care. Like, I really don't want to take a class. I don't, I don't need to, you know, I'm not going to do anything. Like, why do I need, you know, I'm not going to ride this. I'm not, it's just not for me. I just don't care, you know, but I ended up caring. And like the other thing that made a so my roommate, when I got that scooter, she was also working downtown, right? Taking the bus too. And it was a pain in the butt. She ended up buying a Scarabeo also. So we would sometimes go out riding together. Um, and that was really fun. And actually that's, that's actually how I started riding that scooter. Evan taught me how to ride the scooter just so I would know how to use it, but I really wasn't good at it. And I really didn't have a lot of confidence. I just didn't really get it. And, um, he went away on a business trip for a few weeks. And so my girlfriend and I decided to take them to go out together. Like, Hey, let's go out together. Let's go to the mall, which is like five miles from where we lived in San Francisco. I'm like, okay. So she had more experience riding. She had ridden scooters before. So she was super familiar and comfortable already. And so I followed her. And also this is before even buying gear. So I had gloves, I would wear, I wore my full face helmet and I had full gloves, but I just wore jeans and a jacket and, and hiking shoes. This was before I didn't buy any gear for that scooter, except the helmet gloves. So I followed her basically down highway one, cause living in San Francisco, that's the best way to go South. So that's like a 50 mile an hour speed limit to get to the mall. And we did that together. And so riding behind her, that was great. That was like my first time leaving the house, like the neighborhood and going out like around. And I'd never gone that far by myself. And like, after that ride with her, I mean, it didn't crash. I didn't drop it. I didn't get hurt, but we had a really good time. And then we came back and I was like, I totally can do this. This is so easy and it's fun. I can totally ride this myself. I don't need help. And then after that, I started, that's when I started riding it every day to work. I started riding it to work the next day. So by the time he got back, I'd been riding it every day. And he was really blown away by that. Cause I just wasn't, I was struggling. I really wasn't doing very well with it. He taught me actually how to drive it. And he's actually a pretty good teacher. He's a decent trainer. So he was actually teaching me how to drive it. And we went out into the parking lot a few times and we practiced. I just wasn't feeling it, I guess. Like I was getting it kind of, but I wasn't really confident with it. Yeah. And so it definitely made a difference not having him help me. Made a difference to go out with my friend instead of with him.
Maggie: That's interesting. You've been an MSF instructor. Yes, I was. We've both probably, you know, coached our share of classes and a lot of the, I'm just going to talk about females. Yeah. A lot of the women that didn't necessarily want to be there, you know, I would say, or I'd suggest, or we'd ask like, do you really want to be here? Yeah. You know, all they're concerned about is falling. Well, yeah, the fall. So they're not, nothing's getting through, they're scared. And I'm like, you kind of really want to kind of really want it to be in this class and get through the class.
Joanne: Yeah.
Maggie: But you were not somebody that necessarily wanted it.
Joanne: Not necessarily. I mean, I did for the sake of safety of like, I want to, I want to pass, I want to be competent and know how to, you know, operate this so I don't hurt myself and yeah, so that I can drive it. But I wasn't like passionate about it, but I wasn't completely resistant either. So I wasn't fighting like you just explained that example. That wasn't me. So I did actually have fun taking the class because I actually took it on a bike. I took the class on a Rebel 250. So I was actually on a motorcycle and because I had, but that was a year later after riding the scooter that I took the class. So it took me a year to take it. I got my license by taking the actual DMV test and doing the U-turn on the scooter, doing the test.
Maggie: Yeah. So I wonder, it sounds, I think that would be sort of a nice option then for new, newer riders, like right after taking the course, having the option to ride together. Like, cause what happens is either you, you know, some people already have friends that ride and then it's a question of are these good peers or not so good peers, you know, in terms of riding styles and all that stuff. And then there's always these different, these differing levels of experience, you know, in any group. So I think, especially if you're new or newer or you don't know anybody, you know, and you don't know anybody else who rides, a little peer group of riders would be kind of nice.
Joanne: Yeah. I know. I totally agree. And it's really hard. I've noticed for women to find women to ride with. My recommendation is always jump onto Facebook and look for meetup groups, look for motorcycle groups, new rider groups, women's rider groups in your areas, or start one. If there isn't one, start one and you'll, maybe you'll get three or four or five women. Maybe you won't get a hundred. You don't need that many, but you know, maybe you'll get 10 and you can find some people that way. But I, I had to ride by myself. I just noticed we have a minute before this expires. We'll just jump back on again. But yeah. I had to ride it by myself because I had to go to work. I was like, I got to get to work every day. But that took a while too, because the first time I took that out, it took me an hour to get to work because I avoided all the major thoroughfares and I took all the side streets, the slow side streets, so I could get used to it and get comfortable. I did that for a couple of weeks. So I wasn't like quickly getting to work until a little later. So it took me some time to work up that courage and confidence for sure. I'm like 50% with that because I don't think that's the only way. It's definitely a great resource that people should have for sure. But that shouldn't be how you rely on, that shouldn't be your only way of getting practice, getting confident and getting proficient. That should be one resource to you. The other thing that- I agree. Right?
Maggie: And not everyone needs it.
Joanne: Not everyone needs it, but for the people that need it, sure. That would be really great. But honestly, that's what Facebook is now these days. And Instagram, there's groups and clubs, people form social groups. But I think that the key though is, well, that you for sure that you have to go out by yourself. You have to. You're not always going to have somebody to go riding with you every time, right? It's motorcycling. This isn't driving. So you have to learn how to be comfortable and confident by yourself, period. However, in order to do that successfully, you have to line up all your ducks to make sure that happens. And a lot of students, a lot of new people don't. They disregard the bike that they're buying. They disregard the choices that other people are making for them. That's the biggest problem I've seen. And I myself, I'm sure I've messed up some things and I've made difficult choices that weren't the best for me. But you don't want other people planning out your motorcycle journey. And a lot of male partners do that for their female partners. Nine times out of 10, it's always a male partner driving a female partner to ride. And either inadvertently or intentionally. Because Evan chose our first motorcycle. He chose the scooter for us, which is great. It worked out for me because he had, he has a very sensible, you know, he had a very sensible way of going about it. He didn't buy a Gixxer and go, here, you should just learn to ride this. You know, he went about it in a way that made sense for me to be successful and for him to be successful.
Maggie: But a lot of people don't. It sounds like he knows you and cares about you. And he was trying to think about what would make sense for you, even if he was making a choice. Yeah.
Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. For the both of us. Because, you know, like I said, he's a very sensible guy and he knows how to learn and like how to build those blocks. And he knew just from a safety standpoint and just all the research he did that we got to start on something small and we have to learn and we have to grow our skills and not just buy some ridiculous motorcycle that we have no business buying. And money too, because way back then it was like $2,700 or like $2,600 for a Ninja 250 brand new. That's before out the door. So out the door, we only paid like $3,100 for a brand new Ninja 250. So price too, couldn't afford like a fancy motorcycle anyway, a bigger bike. But he was also thinking about his own success too, not just me. He wasn't like bored on the, you know, he knew that he also needed to take time, take classes, practice. So I think he secretly was strategizing for both of us, but he definitely didn't think that I would turn my whole career into power sports. That wasn't on his plan. His plan was just so we could both ride together.
Maggie: I think you're like back to your point about like how you need to get comfortable and sort of like how, for those of us who ride, our male partners have driven sort of a lot of things. I heard this story recently about this female rider who I think was a newish rider and went riding with two other friends. I think one was her boyfriend and this was somewhere in California. And I don't know where exactly, but it was, it's, it's, it sounds like it's a dream road for many of us because it's, you know, it's along a hill, a mountain road, curvy. But two of the friends were riding fast and she got into trouble. You know, she died. I don't know all the details in terms of if she was trying to keep up or what exactly happened. I heard it from the perspective of a couple that was in, they were in traffic going the opposite way. Just what their observations of what they saw. They saw two motorcycles zipping down the other way. And then there was a traffic stop, a holdup. And then they saw there was a third motorcycle that had gotten hit by a car or a van. I think it was a van. And this person was laying in the road and died. And I was like, Ooh, you know, I don't, again, who knows what happened exactly, but maybe not the best, the best, um, choice. I mean, um, for many reasons, all there's many things, but I was like, yeah, not knowing, right.
Joanne: The exact context of that. But if that was the case, right. If she was a new writer and her two friends were more advanced, they really should be the responsible ones to go. You can't ride with us. You're not going to keep up. We're not going to ride slow for you. You know, like when you are more experienced, you know what your experience is and you know what your level is and how good you are or how fast you want to ride. Like whenever I would consider riding with newer people who are slower and new, I always made the call whether or not I wanted to ride that way. Because those of us who do have experience, we don't ride like we were new anymore. And we make a conscious choice. Okay. Today I'm going to ride super easy and relaxed for my friend who is new. That's what you do for them because you're friends, you don't go, Hey, why don't you come ride with us? Me and my friends who like to drag me. Don't worry. You'll keep up. Like that's like a horrible friend that those are the kinds of people you never want to ride with. You want people who will actually say no to you, knowing what your level is and knowing that you could get hurt. Those are the kinds of people you want to ride with. You know, those are the people you do want to be with because if you ask them, Hey, can you take me out on a slow ride? Of course they will because they're your friends. Real friends do that for each other.
Maggie: And again, there's a lot that's not known because it's told from a perspective of observers. And you know, they saw, yeah, they didn't know she was in trouble. And then you then they saw them coming back and then they're freaking out obviously. And then later the obituary, which is how they found out that she was, you know, she hadn't been riding that long. Yeah.
Joanne: It's really tragic. And it there's so many different ways. Yeah. There's just so many different situations. It's really difficult. You can never really, I think, make pure judgments unless you were actually there. Right. Because the fact is that the best riders also crash and get hurt. Right.
Maggie: Oh, yeah.
Joanne: So there's also just the risk of motorcycling. It's a dangerous sport. Duh. But then you make it more dangerous. Right. When you have people like that. But it's, I still think that, you know, as I said before, one resource sure should absolutely be making some friends and going riding with new friends, maybe friends you met in class, like your MSF class is the perfect place to make friends. Go, hey, you want to go practice together, you know, go on a short ride together. But you do have to be ready to take yourself out and go ride and practice and build up your skills, you know, and build them up, though, not just take yourself out on the freeway on day one. You know, not like that. But, you know, go take yourself out for short rides, practice like that's, I think how I got so good in such a short period of time is because I was out riding to work every day for 15, 20 minutes in the morning, 15, 20 minutes in the afternoon, I wasn't riding like eight hours. And it took me a year and a half to leave San Francisco. So all my riding was in the city and we didn't even leave the city limits or the county for like, it took me a good, I don't know, few thousand miles of seat time on the Ninja before I even left the city, like didn't even go that far. So that build up, I think, is always, you know, key. But, yep, I can still point back to my husband, say it's your fault. It's been an interesting ride, for sure.
Maggie: Do you ever, so you don't ever ride two up with him or do you?
Joanne: Oh no, we stopped doing that years ago. We don't do that anymore. We stopped doing that after his second motorcycle. Like he bought the Seica and then after that he bought a Bandit. No, no, a Suzuki VX800. It was like, it was like the 800 naked standard, like a standard, kind of like a Bonneville type, but a Suzuki. So that was the last time I ever rode two up with him. I just like, I'm good. I got my own bike. I'm good. Yeah. Although if we, you know, if we were carless people and we lived in a city like that, I probably would, wouldn't mind, you know, if he was on a, if he had a big bike like that, sure, I'd jump on the back, but I'm very particular about being on the back because all bikes are not comfortable. And like, I wouldn't want to be on the back of his current bike, the Speed Triple, because that is not comfortable either. Although he took the foot pegs off, so I can't, but I swore off backseat driving a long time ago. It's been a minute. Yeah. Cause it's just so uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable. Unless you're on a Goldwing, you're just miserable for more than 20 minutes. Like I'm miserable, excuse me. I'm miserable after 20 minutes and I couldn't take it anymore. Yeah. I was like, this is the worst. Cause we never had big touring bikes or, you know, comfortable passenger seat bikes. Yeah. So that's the main reason.
Maggie: I guess that's the difference Robin had. He had the Bandit and he had the Beamer and they were both comfortable. So I would get on the current bike.
Joanne: No. Yeah. Yeah. We've always had sport bikes. So I'm like, no thanks. Actually the scooter, honestly, like one, maybe two times, three times on the back of the scooter, maybe four or five times, but I swore it off. Like the last time I rode in the back of that, I was like, I'm never doing this again. This is so, I'm so uncomfortable, you know? So it just, yeah, my comfort wasn't there. I was like, I'd rather take my own bike. I'm good. So yeah, no, only emergencies. And even I don't take passengers. So I have a no passenger rule too. I don't take people on the back of my bikes.
Maggie: I never could do it on the Triumph. I'm already one footing it. Yes. Seriously? You want me to try it? No, that's not safe for either of us.
Joanne: If I have to, sure. Like my rule is I will only do it if you're bleeding. You know, if someone needs help and they go to the hospital, sure, I will do that because it's an emergency, but I don't do that for fun. I don't take people for fun. Yeah. Cause it sucks.
Maggie: I've seen, I've seen, I've seen women at the track day riding other people around and I'm like, ah, I can't do it. Can't do it. I can't do it. I don't. In general, everyone's going to be bigger than me. A little shrimp. I'm like five, two. So, so A, they're all going to be bigger than me. More weight, like, ah, it's not going to happen.
Joanne: Nope. It's just misery. The last time I had someone on the back, it was back when I was still coaching and we would, I was working on a three range range. So we'd run three classes simultaneously and we would drive each other to pick up stuff and clean up. So I put the, my manager on the back and he was only like five, seven, five, 860 pounds, but still on the back of a Kawasaki Eliminator 125. Not great. Um, but just, but that's even a cruiser. So I can't even imagine having someone above me on the back of, yeah, my Triumph or a bike that has a higher center of gravity in the back. Absolutely not. I would fall down, but I don't do passengers. Yeah. Nope. Thanks.
Maggie: Yeah. I have written, I've written Robin on the back of the scooter and that was still scary. Still scary. The only reason I did is because I could touch. So, but touch the ground. But I was like, oh no, no, no, I can't. No. So yeah. Um, yeah.
Joanne: Maybe the buddy's lower, but when I was on my Scarabeo that had a taller seat height than the Ninja, um, I couldn't get my feet on the ground on the seat. I always had to hop off of it and one foot it, but you know, it's a scooter, so it's so easy to do that. Um, but I've always one footed. I've never, I mean either one foot only or two toes. Like I've never really been anywhere close to a, a flat anyway.
Maggie: Yeah. Oh, it took me a long time to get to that. I lowered the Triumph and that's how I wrote it for a good, like the first half of its life. And then we raised it back, put it back to stock. I was like, oh, it's the habits you build though. You know, like, just like you can't go anywhere without a helmet. If you started writing without a helmet, putting it on for some people is horrible. Yeah.
Joanne: It takes, yeah.
Maggie: It takes a, yeah. It takes a lot. It's the habits you build. Yeah.
Joanne: Um, no, absolutely. And you know, with, if you do have a lowered, you know, if you do lower your vehicle, you know, the downside to that is it makes it difficult to move forward, like to move higher, to move into even taller bikes, to move into bigger bikes because you've, you haven't built the skills to compensate, to go, you know, you haven't figured out the workarounds on how to manage that without your height. Um, but I think it definitely just depends on, yeah, where you want to end up and what you want to do.
Maggie: Um, And that goes back to what you were saying before about building confidence, like how you build confidence. And for me at the time, I needed to be able to touch the grounds. I didn't, I couldn't, I wasn't there where I could understand that. No, I could, I could, I could tripod it, like do a three, like it's, it's, it's doable. And, but yeah, that confidence, that's a big thing, like building it. And yeah.
Joanne: No, definitely. And it's a different way for different people. Um, and I took the long way. I, I, I think I definitely took the long route because I spent, you know, three years on a Ninja and then I spent another three years on a different motorcycle. And then I spent another five years on another motorcycle to really build those skills. It took me a good decade to, um, build skills so that I wasn't relying on my Daytonas, which I don't know if you've ever worn Daytonas, but those are like lifted touring boots. They're German. They're, um, they're known for being lifted because they have like an extra thick, uh, uh, midsole and insole.
Maggie: So I don't know those.
Joanne: Yeah. Lady stars there. Um, I reviewed them years ago and I, I wore those religiously. It was basically like having a wedged heel, you know, so that you're lifted on the inside of the boot. The outside's a little bit thick, but it's really the inside where your heel is lifted about two inches. So I relied on those heavily, uh, for like 10 years. And then once I started upgrading my bikes styles, I had to stop using them because they were way too thick to ride with sport bikes, like really aggressive sport bikes. The toe boxes are just too thick. They're too clumsy. And I had to switch into track boots to ride the SV properly and to do a track day, like to really ride it well. So I switched out, started wearing track boots, and then I honestly just got used to it. And I really learned how to break better, clutch better, balance better, uh, park better so that I didn't care about needing the extra height because I learned how to balance my bike. I learned how, you know, where to park, where not to park, just, you know, handling it. And then, um, I just learned to ride a bunch of different bikes that way. So I rode his bike, which I cannot, I still can't get both feet down at the same time. So his bike, I have to ride with one foot. Um, it's even worse with track boots. I can only get the toes down. So I don't, I can't even get the ball of my foot down, um, on his bike. Uh, but it took a long time to build those skills. Yeah. To, to really like effectively do that without killing myself or, you know, dropping bike. So, um, it's just hard. I think in general, you know, motorcycling is just a hard, uh, journey. I think for a lot of people, it's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. I don't think, you know, it is for some people, but it's not common.
Maggie: Yeah, you're right. It's, it's not easy for most people. I had one person in a class who had never ridden before. Oh, just picked it right up. Yeah. And he later explained, he just, he just has that. It doesn't matter what it is. I think with, with mechanical things. So he wasn't bragging. It's just because you, you would never know. He'd never written. He was so comfortable just chilling and that's nice. And it wasn't the height thing. Cause I used to feel like, you know, we have, we have a lot of tall friends, any bike you put under them and they can still touch the ground when they're sitting. And these are the, these are the guys that are staying seated on their bikes when they're gassing up, you know, at the gas station. I'm like, I can't do that. I do that. I don't do it. But I have to, but, but yeah, it's not, I mean, it doesn't hurt, but if you don't have it, you can't, you know, you can't, you can't sit there like, I wish I were a dollar. You can't, you just can't, you have to find the workaround.
Joanne: Yeah, you have to. And I always tell people that for every inch of vertical height that you lack, that's another layer of skill that you set, you have to build. We're not 5'10". So we really have to build our skills really well. We have to build our skills so good. We have to work so much harder and be so much better at certain things that other people take for granted because they can compensate with their feet like breaking bad. You can't break. You have to break really well when you're short. If you suck at breaking, you will drop that bike every time. You will not be able to manage that weight. You will suck at breaking. I mean, drop, you know, you'll drop your bike at the lights. You'll drop your bike in the parking lots. You know, if you don't nail your clutch and throttle control and breaking, you're going to be, you will never graduate outside of your Ninja 250 or your lowered, whatever, or your cruiser. You'll never go up to an adventure bike. You'll never go up to a bigger sport bike. Like these skills are really important. It's honestly just like any other sport where if you're really, really good, your height doesn't necessarily mean anything. There are guys in the NBA who are lower, who are shorter than five, nine, five, five, and they are great. So it's no different. I try to, you know, just try to remind people of that, that your skills matter, you know, not, not your perceived height.
Maggie: Should we wrap it up? I don't have anything else and I'm, I'm hungry. Yeah, we haven't eaten dinner. I'm like, oh.
Joanne: Oh yeah. I had a late lunch. Yes. Yes. Let's do it. This was lovely. I hope that we can get everybody, couples on because I would love to hear.
Maggie: Yeah, that would be fun.
Joanne: Yes. So I've been poking. Robin said probably like September, whatever. It doesn't have to be this month, but anytime, just, you know. This was fun.
Maggie: And for the record, I don't think we sound alike. No, who's, well, listen.
The Gist
Joanne and Maggie are steerin' the ship this round. One main topic is how each got started riding motorcycles. The Gear Chic exclaims that her husband is responsible while Maggie Dean owns up to her modular entry.
If Joanne's husband hadn't taken a careful, step-by-step approach (and bought a scooter at just the right time), she might never have learned about the troubles of carburetors. Over time, she went from hesitant passenger to experienced rider. Her confidence grew but kept a wise doubt of friends suggesting she "keep up".
Maggie adds stories and advice from her time as a riding instructor. She isn't afraid to laugh at herself (or Robin). Her practicality highlights every rider's journey being different, where some find their own solutions with both feet planted.
Announce, Acknowledge & Correct
Robin is still knee deep in his MotorcycleTraining.us website build. Big thanks to Joanne and Maggie for keeping the convo both inspired and in check!
Kit We're "Blatantly Pushing You To Buy"
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cortech Women's Adrenaline GP Motorcycle Boots
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Did We Miss Sump'm?
Sixty percent of the time, we're right every time. What would you add to the conversation and why? Your input is invited. Leave a comment and/or write an article!