Brian: In this episode, today we tackle a paradox, that of the responsible misbehaviorists. Don't worry, we'll explain. Waterproofing is a farce, say I. Says Brian. That is what I say, says me. And of course, where the hell is George Wyman? I can't even predict.

Robin: So we'll just say George Wyman, because I know we're not done.

Brian: Yeah, I know George Wyman passed through Indiana, because I remember we, I found out there's actually a plaque in northern Indiana at a place where he stayed, which was weird.

Robin: Oh, Jordan told me to relay to you that he's been there. Oh, okay. Maybe not where the placard is, but to that town. So that was kind of cool. Opening banter, corrections, website updates. One correction, the Yamaha Seica 2 is in fact a four-cylinder, not a twin. Yes. I've always affiliated the Seica extension with the twin version of Yammy's, their XS motor. Not knowing the Seica 2 was an XJ, whatever that means. I've seen a bizarre number of XJ6 Seica, maybe early to mid-90s motorcycle.

Brian: Yeah, there were 600. They had the kind of little half-fairing on them. Pretty cheap, good bike. Everybody neglected them, and they're extremely rare now.

Robin: They kind of pop it up. Like, I've seen three of them for sale. Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing. Anyhow, that's the only correction. It's great to see. We did get our tax refund. Nice. Pretty excited about that, which means we're paying forward for our 26 taxes, the predicted. And then we're going to get some work done on the toy hauler because the pop-outs are starting to delaminate. That's fun. After that, Maggie's new bike. SV.

Brian: Yeah.

Robin: It's coming.

Brian: Yep. It'll happen. Do it. And there's only like 25 years of SVs to pick from or go buy a new one.

Robin: I think we want the current gen, the Trellis.

Brian: Yeah.

Robin: The Gladius without makeup is probably the plan, but if we can get one that's, you know, new old stock that's been in the showroom floor for too long, I think that'll make us very happy. So we're hunting around. She's at least got Cycle Trader up. She's looking, which is neat. Excellent.

Brian: How are you doing, sir? What's up? I'm good. Big struggle this week has been, I'm reconfiguring the seat on my GS850. I'll put it this way. The GS850 is well known as having the best seat to ever grace the sport of motorcycling. However, in 82, 83, they screwed it up by taking a big scoop out of the front of the seat. So you sit lower. You know, I've had this bike for, I've had this bike for nearly 30 years, 29 years, I think, something like that. No seat concepts yet already, or did you? No, like I know it's the same. It's a stock shape on the seat. I did remodel the seat with a, with an upgraded foam once, but the stock shape. Yeah. You know, all these years later, it's a little, it's getting a little tight. It's a little incompatible with my damaged skeleton. And so I'm re-sculpting the seat and I'm just going to make a cover for it, which is. Your elephant manning, the elephant manning the seat. The foam is horrific. But anyway, I've got like a, I've got another layer of foam on it and I, and I've been sculpting, hacking at it with an electric knife, which is, and I've been kind of, I've got something I can sit on and it's okay, but I still need to build up just the front of the section a little bit. So it puts me up another inch or so and flattens out the seat overall and ends up being, I need to glue on some more foam. I just got that last night. It's a terrifying mess, you know, but in the end I'll end up with something that I can sit on, even if it's ugly. Yeah. You're always all right. So long as you got the pan. Yeah. The pan, the pan's in good shape. I, you know, there was a little bit of rust in one spot from 20 or, you know, however many years ago, but I got it all painted and everything good. There's kind of edged, it's a metal pan, so it needs this rubber edge trim. So you don't, you know, rip the seat cover apart, you know, when you stretch it over. Anyway, it's all ready to go. It's just, I hope it turns out halfway decent. Yeah, I'm planning on riding that to the vintage rally. Awesome. I haven't, like, I haven't ridden my vintage bike to the vintage rally in years. You and I will ride there together. Yes.

Robin: That means I'll be on a GSX-8R. You'll be on a classic GS850. We'll have the side-by-side effect.

Brian: New versus old.

Robin: Vintage versus modern. Also, we'll see if the colors line up, you know, because I think you've got that deep blue and I've got the electric blue.

Brian: I'll have to get some pictures. Be kind of fun. Yeah, the rally is one that's, like, we're not organized enough to keep anybody out. So people have shown up on absolutely everything, including me. I just...

Robin: Did one of our friends show up in a slingshot one year? I don't remember a slingshot, no.

Brian: I remember a Miata a few times.

Robin: That makes sense, too. Yeah, yeah.

Brian: It started to turn into a Triumph rally for a while, and then it started to turn into a Yamaha rally, and I contributed to that. So, yeah, hopefully we'll see some of the oldie moldie old machines come out to play a little bit. They're still great machines. Every time I ride it, I'm like, why don't I ride this more? This thing is awesome. Yeah. They really work a lot better than you would imagine. A 40-plus, good lord, it's a 43-year-old machine. You've kept it pretty much bone stock, right? Yeah, the suspension's the biggest upgrade, which is not really visible. But braided lines, any of that, or just the standard hosing? Braided lines, but I've kept the stock. The stock brakes actually work a lot better than people think they do with braided lines and with some fresh, good pads, the EBC Red.

Robin: Okay, sure, sure. I want to raise my hand here, though, and say, please tell me that I know who I'm talking to, I know what you're capable of, respect. Please promise me that you're going to take that thing out for a nice, mellow ride to get really sort of re-acclimated to it, given... I know what you've done to that bike, I've watched it, but it doesn't have ABS.

Brian: Right.

Robin: You and I, we're spoiled now.

Brian: Yeah.

Robin: We didn't used to be. We are now.

Brian: Yeah, and that's the thing. We're planning a ride Saturday, and I'm hoping I'll have enough of a seat ready to go to sit on. We'll see what happens. I may be stretching vinyl tomorrow night to get that finished and be ready. But yeah, I want to take it out for a good, strong flog and make sure it...

Robin: You set up a Zoom cam in your garage, we can hang out while you're working on it.

Brian: This will be the curse cam. But yeah, have you ever looked for a tool in your tool roll at the side of the road? You can't find it. You kind of improvise around it. You deal with it. And then when you get home, you turn your garage upside down, and then eventually you find the tool in the tool roll right where it's supposed to be. That may have happened to me. I just don't want to know. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's the ticket. Anyway, just kind of a reminder. It basically is an axle wrench, and I talked about changing a tube and a KLR with a really reluctant tire at the side of the road, a little twisty road in the middle of nowhere. Just a reminder, when you're working on a bike on the side of a road, it's a stressful situation. The lighting is bad. Stuff disappears in the dirt. There are pill bugs invading your helmet. It was awful. It's just easy to miss stuff like that at the side of the road. It's kind of one of those situations where you kind of have to take just a moment, breathe, breathe in, breathe out, and slow down a little bit and think about what you're doing. Pay attention. Look with your eyes. I ripped apart like half. I looked in every corner of my garage for this axle wrench, and then I opened up the tool roll. I found actually a different axle wrench I was going to put in my tool roll, opened it up, went to the spot where the axle wrench sits, and there's the one I failed to find at the side of the road. Yeah, man. I had to kick a six-inch adjustable. That is rough. Next up, we do have questions from the wild. So if you'd like us to field your questions, email podcast at tro.bike, lay it on us. We will attempt an answer of some sort.

Robin: I am way ahead of you in reading these questions, and I'm just like, wow, okay, cool. Let's rock this.

Brian: What do you got? All right. First one's simple. So everybody asked this. There's a picture of a tire. Maybe it's a date code. Maybe it's a tire. Maybe it's a blurry whatever. Hey, are these tires safe to ride on? Probably not. Or maybe they are. I don't know. It's a good answer. If the tire is on your mind, unless you and your babies are going to starve, put new tires on it if it's on your mind. But yeah, some people are like, there's a dry rotted tire from 1997 with cords showing. Is this all right? And I was like, no, it is not all right. But there's a lot of gray area there. When I rented the bike, it had really old, ancient tires on it. And I very carefully kind of felt out how they worked and we got through okay. But yeah, most of the time I'd replace tires that old or if they're dry checked or whatever.

Robin: It's pretty good answer. I mean, at the same time, if they don't know, they don't know. If they are looking at something and thinking, huh, there may be natural instinct there that's saying this is questionable.

Brian: Yeah.

Robin: Dry rot, crack, no tread, shaped like a brick. These things are, is that how it's supposed to look? Is the tube supposed to be sticking out there?

Brian: Yeah. There are two things I see fairly often. One is the antenna tread on a bike. And so if you look at a motorcycle tire, once in a while, you'll notice like a darker black line around the circumference of the tire and the tread. I've seen people absolutely freak out and panic over this.

Robin: I'd like to feel this because I know what that is, but I'm gonna let you feel it. But I want you to know that I know what that is.

Brian: Yeah. That's sometimes called the antenna tread. And what that is for, it's so that high silica tires can be grounded. So they don't build up static electricity. Yep. Usually you never see it, but once in a while, depending on the compound, depending on the tire, you can see it just off center. It'll be like a little line, a slightly darker area of tread. A black line around your tire is perfectly fine. It's just for grounding.

Robin: There are manufacturers that will draw that line on it all the way around.

Brian: Yeah. The second thing that happens is with the knobby tires, just universally, yes, it is perfectly normal for your knobby front tire to wear so that every other knob is higher. They all do that when you ride them on the street very much. It's just something that happens under braking. The physics of rubber hysteresis are very complex, but that's a common question. You get those like, hey, what's wrong with my bike? Every other knob is higher. It's just how they do. All right. Somebody with a long username, but we'll just abbreviate as TDC, brought up the topic of grandmas and motorcycles. Yeah. Robin, what's your grandma and motorcycle story? Or do you have one? Or mom and motorcycle? What are the parameters on this? I will tell you my grandma's story. Okay. You'll see if you got one too. All right. Long ago, I was over at a friend's house and I had my motorcycle. We got to talking and her grandma said, I've never been on a motorcycle. She was physically doing fine and so forth. She said, will you take me for a ride? I'm like, absolutely. Hell yes. I will take you for a ride, grandma. The answer is yes. And my friend was, I mean, she was absolutely appalled trying to stop this horrible thing from happening. Anyway, I took grandma for a ride and she laughed and giggled and was just, you could hear like from the back of the bike. She had, it was just a short ride. We didn't really have a gear for her. I think we scared up a helmet. Just took her, just took her for a short ride, got up to highway speed, came, you know, came back and she was full of joy over it. She really understood. It was really amazing. She says, oh, that's, that's wonderful. I've never had such fun. I wish I all the, you know, she was just incredibly positive about it. And of course my friend was, was happy because grandma came back in one piece. You made it happen. It was so much fun. You know, it's just like you reach that point in your life. You're like, screw it. I'm going to, I'm going to have an experience. Yeah.

Robin: I don't have a story like that, but what I do have, and of course my mother cares about my safety, but at the same time, she knows that I care about my safety too. That really benefits the conversation. She's always asking where are you riding next? Where are you going to? How's it going? You know, do you have any tours planned? All these things. While I was visiting North Carolina at one point, well, two things. When we were still living in Libertyville, Illinois, she showed up for a visit. I gave her the t-shirt black text on white, which reads, you know, five letters per line because we're cheap. It says the super slick, ultra badass motorcycle, mega posse of incredible power on it. And I got video of her next to the super scooter. Well, Betty out there. And she says the super slick, ultra badass motorcycle, mega posse of incredible power. And she nailed it. And I got that on video and it's on my computer somewhere and I'm super proud of this. Now, fast forward several years and I rode to North Carolina while we were staying in Candler. My nephew is a quiet, mild mannered, and he's going through childhood, right? He was like, I think he was nine or 10 at the time. He'd grown pretty quick. His feet could totally reach the pegs. And my mom asked me to put a child on the back of a motorcycle and take him for a ride up and down the road. So this was one of the few times in the history of my riding career where I sacrificed all of my safety gear and put it on him. He was swimming in this jacket, but we got it cinched up pretty good. And the helmet, it did what it needed to do and went for a mile down and rode for a mile back and just made that kid's day. Nice. My mother asked me to do that. So there's your mom inclusive response. Very cool.

Brian: So I was perusing the wilds. I think it was ADV Rider or somewhere, but I saw a phrase pop up that I just loved. It's a concept I've long held dear. But the phrase was responsible misbehavior, the art of responsible misbehavior. And I really liked that phrase, so I wanted to steal it. There's a lot of great writing out there to enjoy responsibly, not misbehaviorally. And I can tell you there's nothing better than you hop off a plane, grab a Lyft or an Uber, and you're on a motorcycle, you're in the mountains instead of a boring rental Dodge or some crap like that.

Robin: I can think of one thing better, and that's being in those mountains and realizing that your good friend is showing up and you're going to get to see them soon and then seeing them arrive. That's pretty damn good, man. There you go.

Brian: It's pretty nice, isn't it? Yeah. Next time you're going somewhere, visiting, whatever, think about renting a bike. It's a lot of fun. So we're all responsible sport touring riders around here, right?

Robin: Responsible. Yes. Cheers, cheers.

Brian: We're going to have a frank and open discussion of tactics, times, places, means for riding with a little added vigor, a little verve, a little spiciness to it. On your bike. Not on your own bike. Yeah, you never, yeah. Not somebody else's. Never with someone else. Yeah, yeah. Harumph, harumph. I didn't get a harumph out of that guy. Need a harumph over there. We think it's perfectly possible to enjoy, dip into the performance of a fine two-wheeler while also maintaining a high level of responsibility. Like just about everything else. Yeah, we got an article about that. So if you get a TRO'd up bike, you search the word speed, you're going to find my article on velocity philosophy. Kind of goes through some of these points over just kind of really digging into the ethics and the philosophy of spirited riding on roads less traveled. Now we've talked about this before. Where are you going with this? And so the idea of, you know, there may be things that you, that law enforcement may want to have a chat with you about if they see you, but overall it's ethical. There's some principles in how you go about this sort of thing that can go a long way to reduce the risk to our licenses, to our bodies, to the terrain and the environments and the people and the places where we go and the places we pass through with such joy. The principle is one crime at a time. So if your velocity is such that it might attract attention, you have to make sure everything else is completely squared away. You know, make sure you're licensed, you're trained, you're sober. That's a big one. Make sure you're nice. Make sure you have your gear on. Make sure you have insurance. Make sure your bike is properly registered. Make sure your bike is in good shape. And I've also found a, you know, when you, when you pull off your helmet and a little gray scruff comes out a little, a little evidence of a cranial.

Robin: Oh, hello officer.

Brian: A little evidence of a responsible long life can actually go a long way as well. So, you know, you're a grownup, not, not one of those, not one of those hooligan kids I've heard about. Obviously you want to have your own skills in, in, in play and you want to make sure you pick and choose your time, places, that kind of thing. We'll get to that.

Robin: Those skills need to be cooked up too. They need to be warm.

Brian: Yeah, that's right.

Robin: In a previous episode, we were discussing my arrival to Wisconsin where I met up with Travis Burleson and took a ride around the block here, meaning 200 miles of the good stuff. And because the environment was so different and I am so not acclimated, the viewport is so, it's so much more obscured. This has an effect. And so you have to cook up different skills for different places.

Brian: Yeah, I think. And, and getting used to, getting used to how to see in different places is important. I'll give a, like in Missouri, for example, um, the Missouri, the, the Missouri DOT there, the, these are artists, these people are artists and the pavement is just sublime in Missouri. Like if there's a little dirt on a road, I don't know what they do, but like little gnomes come out at night and sweep it off. If there's a, you know, there's like a pothole or something, it gets, it gets absolutely buttered. I mean, it's just cool. But yeah, one of the things they do that really, I think increases safety for everybody a lot. And I wish other States would do this. They cut back the underbrush at the side of the road a lot further than most States. So you've got a two lane road in the middle of nowhere on either side of the road, you've got a lane and a half to two lanes that is absolutely clear of brush of trees and things like that. So in Missouri, you can see a lot further. And so you can do things in Missouri. You cannot do in Indiana. Oh, absolutely. Everything at the side of the road. That's it.

Robin: Bit of a fluke that it's been done for a few years now, but they made a new racetrack in Missouri. It's a beautiful looking track, but looks to be terrible for motorcycling. There's just not enough runoff. There's not enough protection. So the roads in Missouri are more rideable on a motorcycle than their new racetrack. Ozarks International Raceway. If you look at it, it is gorgeous, but you do not want to go there on a motorcycle. Oh, wow. Wow. You see this?

Brian: And those are metal fences.

Robin: Yeah. So no. So think about that. Consider what Brian's telling you. You've got roads that are curvy as hell. It's a motorcycling paradise, but you've got Roscoe out there perhaps. Or you go to their actual dedicated racetrack where you are in a formidable amount of danger.

Brian: So yeah, we're not going to recap the entire article, but yeah, one of the things we discussed here is you kind of have to pick and choose your times and places. So, you know, one crime at a time is one principle. And the other is you have to, you know, where are you going to kind of uncork this a little bit and where are you going to keep a lid on a little more? And consider things like, you know, how much traffic there is. I really pay attention to the number of mailboxes. You know, if you get a lot of mailboxes, then that's where people live. That's their kids. That's their, you know, their chihuahuas or whatever. You want to be a little more careful when you see a lot of mailboxes. You're around a lot of people, a lot more Buicks, that kind of thing. And one of the things, like I don't agree with, like the AMA is a loaded topic, the American Motorcycle Association. One of the things that they are correct about is that the biggest threat to riding rights is noise, open exhaust. So exhaust noise coming from motorcycles, if it's around other people, it makes them mad. And so if you have a bike that's kind of loud, then you have to be cognizant of how that affects other people. Don't open it up. You know, if you're in a place where there's a lot of mailboxes, and even if it's really twisty and wonderful, you know, Hey, keep a little bit of a lid on it. If you're in town, there's no reason to be revving things up and to make a lot of unnecessary noise. You're just making enemies, that kind of thing. Basically being a clown.

Robin: One of the things about the times to open it up, I think if you know the environment, if you know the road and you're familiar with how remote it can be with the right skill set, I personally seek those roads out for that exact reason. It doesn't change the fact that I don't really want to see the look of fear of anybody coming around a corner while I'm going around the corner the way I'm doing it. That's not good either. So it's like, if that should happen, I tend to dwell on that and think that was not cool. So it's something to be avoided. But if you know that road, if you're riding the road that you can see, you're selecting your opportunities and you're twisting on the throttle in those moments that you're ready and prepared for, assumed risk and risk assessment have a hell of a handshake and a lot of smiles can come from that because it is a thrilling thing to do, especially on a performance machine.

Brian: I mean, that describes New Mexico pretty much everywhere. It pretty much does. You know, you can go miles without even seeing a mailbox.

Robin: You can, but also think about this in terms of the mailbox thing. So Sevens is coming up and I know Sevens. I know it. Like, it is a long journey, but when you repeat it consecutively for several years, you know what's happening when you know what to expect from a given road. Oh, yeah. From this point to that point, it's going to be like this. And oh, there's the dilapidated, depressed flood zone housing. We will chill out. This is their peaceful zone. Oh, we're back on the we're on the park road that is never used. Nobody ever uses this road. OK, yeah, there's some blind corners, sure. I'll hug them tight and I'll be on the brakes. I'll be ready. These are all per instance risks. And I say per instance a lot. I've been writing it a lot too in my articles. Per instance cornering strategies. Arrive at the opportunity. Make the decision. Fire the bike. Repeat, but only to the extent that you know where the period is on the end of that writing sentence. Next sentence. On and on and on. Create paragraphs. Each section of a road is its own chapter in writing, depending on how long you're on it and your ability to see the corners in depth and execute a plan throughout before arriving at whatever next plan needs to be conjured in the moment. This high alert behavior, it's not for everybody and it doesn't have to be for you. You can still ride a motorcycle. You don't have to do what we're doing. But if you're going to do what we're doing, these are the overhead philosophies to keep in mind.

Brian: Yeah, nice. Show a little respect to the locals, that kind of thing. Enjoy bringing Joanne. I bet she's got some thoughts. Let's see what she thinks about the topic of responsible misbehavior.

Joanne: Lasers are safe. Marshmallows are only good on s'mores and hot chocolate. And morality, that's the one thing you need to maintain along with integrity.

Robin: She really can't do it all. And that was this episode's Armory, everybody. Thank you, Joanne Todd.

Joanne: It's only because I had a question about that today in an interview I had was integrity.

Robin: And that means it's time for the Armory, brought to you by gearcheck.com. I'm pretty sure that Brian wants to have a discussion with you about waterproof kits. Do it. Wording, you know, I think I speak for Brian. He was hoping I would. When it comes to waterproof gear and Brian's opinion that it's all garbage-tastic and not to be trusted, use your words, Brian.

Brian: Waterproof is so rare as to have not been experienced by this person. Water-resistant, sure. Waterproof for a time, a useful amount of time, sure. I've been disappointed by every piece of waterproof gear so far. So, Joanne, tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Joanne: Okay. So, first we have to provide context. So, we're talking about waterproofing in motorcycle gear. We're not talking about...

Brian: Yeah, I'm not fishing.

Joanne: So, with that, then we must also rule out any products that were not designed for motorcycling. And the reason I say that is because motorcycle-specific, waterproof gear, gloves, boots, whatever, they all have riding in mind, speed, freeways, highways, permeability on your motorcycle.

Robin: Posture.

Joanne: Right? Posture. But the fact that you're moving at 60 miles an hour, let's say, on the highway, if I say 55, but let's be honest, the water is going to hit you harder than that. So, if your expectation is, oh, my $40 frog tugs aren't waterproof at 70 miles an hour. Well, you don't belong in this conversation. This conversation is for the adult. First thing I'm going to address is purposed waterproof gear is how you get waterproof in motorcycling. So, then the question is, are you using things that are not meant for motorcycling? The answer is yes. Okay. Then after that, so I'm thinking of a flow chart, you know, is it this? Yes or no? Okay. If the answer is yes, are you using the cheapest thing you can find? Or are you actually investing a healthy amount of money in hoping that something is very waterproof? A or B? Is it A, I'm spending the least amount of possible? Or B, I'm actually throwing down a lot of money. And when I say a lot of money, I mean more than a few hundred dollars. Go.

Brian: We're spending, yeah, we're spending Gore-Tex levels of money.

Joanne: Okay. Can you throw out some examples? Like, and again, these have to be motorcycle specific because as amazing as Gore-Tex is, you can't expect the bicycle Gore-Tex to perform the way that motorcycle Gore-Tex works.

Robin: One ply Gore-Tex. I'm out of this conversation, by the way. My problems are solved in this area.

Joanne: With Gore and as well as other brands, other competitors, there's different types. There's Gore Packlite. There's Gore Pro. There's Performance. There's actually different ones, depending on what you're needing. Because if you're hiking through the woods, your need for waterproofing is vastly different than me going, us going 60 miles an hour down the freeway. So Brian, I would love to know what models have you tried. Let's hear it.

Brian: One specific piece of gear that I spent the money for, it is motorcycling specific, and I was disappointed. Garin Balance Boots. They're an adventure. They're an off-road boot.

Joanne: I'm familiar.

Brian: Mine were the, I don't know if they still have it, but mine were the Gore-Tex version. Got the keeps you dry guarantee, et cetera. Right boot has always leaked, still leaks to this day.

Joanne: And they make a Gore-Tex version is what you're asserting.

Brian: They used to.

Joanne: They used to. So this is an old model because to my knowledge, I've never seen a Gore-Tex version of that as long as I've sold product.

Brian: I'd have to look it up when I bought these boots. So the right one leaked from the beginning and then nobody would, Gore and the seller just pointed fingers and I never.

Joanne: Can you give me a timeframe? This is really important because to clarify, they do not make, this boot does not exist. There is no Balance Oiled Gore-Tex version. So give me a decade.

Brian: I bought them in late 2015.

Joanne: How quickly do they fail on you?

Brian: First long ride the next spring.

Joanne: Okay. So the other question I want to ask is, have you tried any other Gore-Tex boots or is your entire perception of Gore-Tex performance based on this one boot?

Brian: I've tried other Gore-Tex gear. I've tried expensive stuff, AeroStitch and also Klim.

Joanne: Are we talking about footwear or are we talking about everything?

Brian: Footwear. This is the only one.

Joanne: Okay. So in general, like if you have a Gore-Tex motorcycle boot and, you know, something like this that, you know, it should actually, you know, function as a waterproof product. If it happens to you, you know, the first time you need to warranty that. You need to call Gore-Tex and complain. The problem can be if you buy things you used without a receipt or you buy them overseas. So we also have to exclude anything that you bought from, say a dealer in Italy, a dealer in Spain. So it's important when you, when you guys are out there shopping online that you're checking, where am I really buying this from? Maybe it's a dealer in like North Carolina and they have an eBay store. Cool. That's the first thing. But the second thing is, if it is a USA, you bought it down the street at CycleGear, you go back to CycleGear, try to, you know, certainly within their warranty, but Gore-Tex has a lifetime warranty and a lot of competitor membranes. You know, there are people who are manufacturing products using Gore products, but fail. It happens. But if you talk to Gore, it happens very rarely. So on the one hand, of course, it shouldn't fail on you. But on the other hand, did you take that issue to the manufacturer and say, hey, this isn't working. I need you to inspect this. Because what Gore does is they take that boot and they inspect it. Because a part of certification is they have their own standards for waterproofing and permeability. They submerge it. So they have their own tests and then they will do their testing to see, all right, our membrane failed or the manufacturer didn't put this boot together properly and it leaked. So that's the first thing.

Robin: I'll address the court and let the jury know that Brian did mention that he had calmly raised the issue with the people that he got through and they pointed fingers at each other, but he has not shown any sign of a receipt. So please continue with.

Brian: If you want to see the receipt, I've got it in my email. But anyway, yeah, I did. So I think what we're talking about in this particular situation, with this particular boot for this particular foot and this particular person, I think we're talking about a failure of customer service. I contacted Gore. They said contact a retailer. I contacted the retailer and they said, send them back to us. And they say, we tested them. We put them in a pan of water and it didn't leak. So you're wrong. And I said, well, they do leak.

Joanne: Curious who's a retailer.

Brian: I'm not going to blow them up. They're a great retailer. I'm not going to blow them up.

Joanne: It does sound like you were wrong by your retailer. Definitely.

Brian: Yeah. And I said, well, can I kick this? Can we kick this over to Gore? Because I just went for a ride in the rain and I'm going to actually be really fair. I think this boot was potentially a good product because the left boot 10 years later, I just had a very, very wet ride in the Smokies two weeks ago and my left foot was dry and my right foot was wet as usual. So I had a manufacturing defect and they did not back it up as they were supposed to. I contact, I went back and forth several times and then gave up.

Robin: And is this when you decided to assault the people who, oh, sorry, wrong case. Please continue.

Brian: Sorry.

Joanne: No, that is totally the fault of the retailer. I mean, that does sound like bad service.

Brian: The retailer. Yeah. Or they said, we don't, we think it's fine. Go away, kid. I was not able to, I was not able to escalate it. I needed their help to escalate it to Gore, I guess. I didn't, I don't know what the.

Robin: Emperor Gore from Star Wars.

Brian: The Gore-Tex people. I don't think it's a failure of those boots. What I have had happen with other gear is expensive or cheap or whatever. I don't know. I don't even want to know what I spent on, on aero-stitch gear, which is supposed to be among the best, supposed to keep you dry. It did not. I've had two pairs of aero-stitch pants cut off me by EMTs. So that's where those went. You know, I kept using them, but yeah, they, they never were. They never like water always came through the seams.

Joanne: That is not something that you can blame Gore for. So the member Gore is the member in Gore is just that material, right. That they stand depending on what kind of method of lamination or what kind of waterproofing it is. Waterproof membranes are used in different ways, right? There's Z-Liner is the less expensive, affordable way where they just sew in a membrane so that it's sandwiched between the outer fabric of the jacket and the inner lining. So it's literally like a sandwich. The meat in between and it floats. It's not, it's not actually bonded. That is less waterproof. It's still waterproof, but the permeability, right. And the breathability and the weight are drastically different.

Brian: Yeah.

Joanne: So when we look at laminated products, bad manufacturing or they didn't seal it right or something, I would have gone right to aero. Did you go back to aero-stitch?

Brian: I think that was the way they were designed and manufactured because I was getting, I was getting leaks at the seams. And at the time they did not have waterproof zippers. They had a flap over the zipper.

Joanne: They didn't have a sealed zipper.

Robin: I was about to ask if you did the roofing shingles thing where it's like, you know, you make sure that the helm covers the neck, covers the waist. So everything makes sure the water is never entering.

Joanne: Another thing to consider when you choose a waterproof product. If you are wearing something like an aero-stitch, we all know, and this is fact, they are not designed for sport bike people.

Brian: Yeah.

Joanne: If you ride anything that is sporty, that's not the contour or the riding position or the angle or the anything they're designing around. So their garments, the zippers and everything, to my knowledge, and now I don't work for them. So I can't attest to that. Okay. None of this is designed that way. I'm sure they want, of course, they want everybody to wear the product.

Robin: They'd make a killing if they could do it.

Joanne: Sure. But let's be honest, a forward riding position, ensuring that the neckline drops in the right way so water doesn't get in. That's just an example. So it's really also important that when you choose a waterproof product, you're choosing an in your riding position family because that can make or break the permeability as well. Before I had adventure bikes, I was wearing adventure gear, Revit adventure gear on my sport bikes because how else am I going to tour? How else am I going to get, stay dry, right? Because I'm touring on it and I'm riding in the rain. I didn't have any other options and I wanted really waterproof product. I still got a little wet because I can't expect an adventure product to work while I'm leaned forward and I did get wet. Right. And I also got wet up my butt because I'm leaned over and I got water like up that way, but I fully expected that. So that's my other thing to is to make sure you're doing when you're shopping.

Robin: A 650cc bidet.

Joanne: Right, right.

Robin: I'm just going to interject here and say that in all of the podcast episodes I've recorded with Brian, this is the closest thing to him getting the gift that he's wanted, which was an in-depth discussion with a little bit of opportunity for debate. Similar banter at higher revs can also be found via the Gear Chick website. Visit gearchick.com and dig in.

Joanne: Thank you.

Robin: It's time to move on to segment three, moments of motorcycle history with Jordan Liebman. All I know is that George Wyman is still riding across the USA at this point. I don't actually remember where we left off to begin with. So Jordan, tell us what's going on. Take it away.

Jordan: It's in Council Bluffs, Iowa, that he decides to alter his route from the southerly route to the northerly route. Apparently there's two routes. I know that one of them will go through Chicago and one will go through Springfield, Illinois. And so before this, we had the Union Pacific Southwestern route. Now he's on the Northwestern Railroad. He gets past Ames, Iowa, which runs south to Des Moines. And he adds that the northerly route he chose was a bad choice. He seems to be good at making bad choices here. It's got a 50-50. As far as we know, it might be worse than that. And he hopes that the southerly route was better for somebody. Riding in Iowa was, quote, vile. Despite all he had to say about the pavement in Council Bluffs in Omaha, he leaves Council Bluffs at 6 30 a.m. on June 13th. He was warned by this gentleman, Mr. Smith, that the roads were going to be bad. This guy, I don't know whether he's been all over America. Was it in a car, on a bicycle? I don't know. But he's telling him that don't be so enthusiastic. And he proved to be right. Here in Council Bluffs, one more photo op. Kodak moment. He takes a picture of his bicycle standing upright in thick mud. We all thought all that was behind him. Apparently not. Where the mud dried, it left deep ruts, basically in all edge traps. These are all edge traps. They're all longitudinal edge traps along the entire road. So you can't even get a track. You can't balance. You're in the deep ruts of wagons. You get out of one and you fall into another. And you try to change directions. The ground is staring the bike. It makes your graded river bridges look like a cakewalk. So this is a interesting linguistic notation from 1903. He calls them thank you ma'ams, as in wham, bam, thank you ma'am, which must have been a saying back then already, despite the interwebs claiming it was from a 1948 play called Mr. Roberts. I looked that up. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. It was spoken by a sailor. But apparently in 1903, that was already a thing. When something kicks your ass, you say thank you ma'am, apparently. Because of the ruts and lumps in the road, his bundle, he's got like a bundle, like a hobo's bundle behind him now, with tools and parts, opens up and the parts are gone. So he goes off on foot for about two hours, trying to trace his path until he gets all the parts that had fallen off the bike while he was trying to make time through these ruts and stuff back. So he's lost two hours, though. He tries to make some time and now he's lost two hours because shit's fallen out of his knapsack or whatever it is. He was unable to locate the pump connection. Ah, the pump that he's using is for his tires, which makes you wonder what kind of valves his tires have and what sort of connection it was. Could have been Schrader or it could have been the other kind, the little narrow one. Because those were both invented already. I assume it's probably Schrader. But for whatever, he needed a connection and now he's lost that. So if his tire goes flat, he's screwed. He's also lost a length of wire for the batteries. What does that mean? Had to have been spare. He gets back on the bike and goes about a mile until the mud traps his wheels completely and throws them 10 feet over the bars, which is how we started this story. The very beginning, the very beginning, leaving Sacramento or whatever, now he's in Iowa. He says the ruts stick up five inches and some are as sharp as knives. He only makes 40 miles on this day. Okay. So now he's back to doing 40 miles a day after getting into the sweet flatlands of Iowa and Nebraska. This day he does 40 miles. He mentions there's wagons and horses and almost never sees an automobile. And the horses are all afraid of his bike. So great. So just imagine being in a neighborhood with a bunch of dogs that are all barking at you when you ride by. Same idea. This point, he also says, well, this is interesting. He tries to help two ladies with a covered wagon when their horse freaked out. Well, he didn't say freak out, but basically that's what happened. Freaked out because of him. And he embarrasses himself trying to calm down the horses because it only makes it worse. And the horses get even crazier. And he walks off and these ladies are glaring at him. No good deed goes unpunished. He took a photo of a farmer's field at Loveland, Iowa. You probably looked that one up. That is completely submerged underwater. Oh, okay. And the trees don't hardly have trunks from the height of the water. This is how the ground is so wet. He makes it to Woodbine, Iowa and gets off the road and onto the tracks on the northwestern and a section boss, which is, you know, somebody who, Mr. Snappy Pants here, orders him off the tracks because of so many sharp curves and danger between the bluffs. So he makes a detour through a farmer's field, which feels just as bad and decides to take a different set of tracks, the Illinois Central. This is promising. And nobody bothered him at all on those tracks. He gets to Denison, Iowa at 8 p.m. And he only went 75 miles in 13 and a half hours. Not going to do the math, but it's in there somewhere. At this point, his chances are basically gone. So why push himself to death? He stops in Denison, Iowa to get some sleep and doesn't get to sleep until midnight or to bed until midnight. Denison, Iowa, he leaves at 8 a.m. directly onto the railroad tracks and goes five miles before he had to get off and find the highway, which didn't help. And his coaster brake broke. This is not the first time his coaster brake has broke, I think, because the axle threads were stripped and he couldn't start the bike by pedaling. Like I said before, these bikes, you can pedal them to start them. You can also push them to start them. Now he can no longer pedal it to start it. So he has to run along and hop on it. And they ran races like that in the 50s and so, Running Start or whatever. This was the hottest day he encountered. And he's drenched in perspiration because he couldn't decide if it was easier to walk or ride. He's losing his ability to, this is me getting to his head, he's losing his ability to think, possibly heat stroke. And he's walking in gumbo. So now it's hot. He says, I hated the task of dismounting every half mile, walking in the gumbo mud and pulling my feet out at each step as if I was breaking them away from the hold of a rubber rope. Sure. He then falls and he strikes his knee badly on a rock and had to sit down for 15 minutes until he could move again. And then while he walked the bike, passersby gave him grief. He didn't want to answer him. He just kept his trap shut. A wise man once said nothing. He makes it to Ogden, Iowa. So this is the second Ogden he's been to, as far as I recall, by evening after going 76 miles. In Ogden, he finds a blacksmith, quotation is blacksmith, who was able to cut a new thread on the axle. This is starting to be a little bit foreshadowing here. A new thread cut on his axle. This is a big deal. And wedged a few pieces of brass so that it would act properly. This is in his words. And it took until 1130 a.m. to get his coaster brake fixed. There is a glorified mechanic, we're going to call him. He's a freaking blacksmith. The guy's making horseshoes, all right. And he trusts this guy with a motorcycle crankshaft, effectively, a coaster brake, which is precision stuff. So this is not sounding good to me. He basically found Jethro and Cornfield and said, fix my bike and whatever. This does not sound good. Wedged it with a few pieces of brass so that it would act properly. Oh, this says Redneck written all over it. When I was working on bikes professionally, I used to have a game I would play called Find the Redneck. You would get into a bike that had been parked for 40 or 50 years. So many things, I had a museum of parts I'd pulled out and I'd put them on a rack next to my workbench. So this is my little museum of Redneck engineering, whatever. This is the Redneck with shoving brass into his coaster brake to make it go. Takes until 1130 a.m. to get his coaster brake fixed. 11 miles to Boone, Iowa, which was the first town he encountered with asphalted streets. So he had a luncheon spelled properly. And after that, he took to the tracks and a big Swede, this guy's Swedish. What did they call him before? Finns. Finns and Swedes? Come on. He doesn't know what the ethnicity is. He's just calling him something. A big Swede ordered him off the tracks and he had to climb through a barbed wire fence and drag the bike through and walk half a mile through a farmer's field until he could reach a road again. So the tracks diverged away from the road. And in order to get back to the tracks, because this big Swede, half a mile through a farmer's field. Fun times. Once on the road, he got his wheel stuck in a rut and he falls and broke his fourth cyclometer.

Robin: And that's where we are with George Wyman's trek across the United States in 1903 on a bicycle with a pool of gasoline pouring onto a hot motor. Yeah. Goodness gracious. Crazy. They don't build any of us like that anymore. I'm taking off on Friday to run sevens. So that means next week is the last opportunity we'll have to record for two weeks. Anything in particular you all want to discuss? Joanne, you got a topic in mind? I'll come up with something.

Brian: There's a first time for everything. We've stopped Joanne.

Robin: It'll be my turn to grab the helm. Anything you all want me to try to come up with in between now and then?

Joanne: Are they supposed to answer that?

Robin: Both of you. Yes.

Brian: I need the inspiration as well. I'm going to have to think of something. One thing I do want to mention is Joanne brought it up and I think at some point we need to do an episode where you drag in our significant others and we talk about what they think of motorcycling. I think that would be incredible. I don't know when we can pull it off. It won't be next week because I'm going on sevens.

Joanne: Pick a date that we're all available.

Robin: Okay. Maybe a while. Okay. In the meantime, I had an idea. Based on what we talked about in this episode, I'm thinking about doing something. Let's talk about cornering strategy on a per instance basis. All right. The technicality of it all. Talk nerdy to me. We'll be getting super nerdy about what the hell am I doing up front when I lead five down the road for seven days and try to keep them safe in order and keep the public happy about our presence there while we bring them money from different states. Cornering strategy for the sport touring enthusiast. We'll discuss it next week. You guys ready to get out of here? Yes. Let's get out of here.