Robin: What are we talking about in this episode?

Armene: Here we go. So we talk about coaching students, really rough students.

Robin: Okay.

Armene: We talk about people being unkind. Then we bring it up and we talk about monkeys and motorcycles. We talk about clothing. Clothing?

Robin: Big feet. Are we gonna do fashion? Can we please do fashion?

Armene: Fashion. We talk about big hands and tiny paws. And we- And hooves. And you guys make fun of me because I had to borrow my 10 year old headphones. They look great. And they don't fit quite right.

Robin: They're perfect. They're now a permanent fixture in this podcast. What else should we talk about in this episode?

Armene: We talk about twisty roads. Group riding? And group riding. We should talk about group riding.

Robin: Yes. Let's talk about all these things in that specific order. Piper, why don't you introduce us?

Armene: Welcome to TRO. I'm Piper. There is Tim Clark and also Robin Dean. We're missing the sickly Travis who has COVID with all of his kids. Although we secretly think that he's partying with a bunch of friends tonight, just pretending like he can't be here. We're so excited that you've joined us and thank you for including me. I can't believe I'm one of the boys. Holy crap. Oh yes. And we can't wait for you to listen to us talk about really important things. Is that it? I think so.

Tim: That sounds good. Here we go.

Robin: Catch me up on the class you just coached.

Armene: Oh my God.

Robin: Now I might use this info, so you gotta subdue. I mean, I guess maybe that's public knowledge. That's more of a, yeah.

Armene: Not everyone has natural abilities. Usually you have, you know, a handful of those people in a class. But when all 11 students are struggling from the get-go, even, I mean, we even had some students who couldn't get their name out during introduction. Like the nerves were really high. They were really freaked out. Wow. Oh my. So on exercise two and exercise three, I think that allotted time is somewhere between 35 and 45 minutes, right? And I've always been a big believer that if you, if you put in the extra time in two and three, you know, it pays dividends.

Robin: Exercise two is a beast. That takes a long time.

Armene: But three, the starting and stopping, if you can get them really, oh, I see. That's the one where I spend a lot, a lot of time. Anyways, exercise two, we spent an hour and 32 minutes. Exercise three, we spent an hour and 47 minutes. And we had people dropping bikes. And then, I mean, typically when you walk up to somebody and say, hey, why do you think that happened? They're like, oh, because I had my handlebars turned and I panicked and squeezed the front brake. You'd walk up and say, why do you think that happened? And they're like, I don't know. It just dropped, it fell over, I don't know. So exercise four, one of the students walked up to me with, after watching my demo of the shifting, he walked up to me with his helmet and said, I think I'm good. I'm just going to go. I mean, that's the good student.

Robin: That's the student that did what was necessary.

Armene: That was great. Then I think we canceled somebody out in exercise five. And then day two, so we didn't get anything past exercise five on day one. Day two, we canceled someone out on exercise six because I just thought he was going to kill himself. And so I just kept going back to those students and I'm like, congratulations.

Robin: I've heard of this happening on rare occasion, but that is hard. That is a hard number to beat in terms of we made it only this far. That's a rough class.

Armene: Well, too, and then, I mean, I had a plane to catch on Sunday night. So I'm thinking, I can't be here until midnight. But it worked out. Everybody who stayed, everybody who survived all of the rounds passed, which I couldn't even believe it.

Robin: That's good to hear. The other interactive moment of bullshit that you had to go through.

Armene: I have two stories that are actually really good. So we have this coach, her name is Julie. She's amazing. She's 65. She has four boys and nine grandkids and she's the shit. I feel like I'm going to be in a nursing home by the time I'm 65. So the fact that she's hustling the way that she does is so impressive. But she had this class of BRC2 students. Well, so to start it off, one of the students was a half an hour late and he called me and I literally had to help him drive into the parking lot. I'm on the phone. Okay, now park here. Okay, great. Now open your door. Now get out. Now walk to this side of the building. Now walk to the back of the building. He had me on the phone. He told me he was three minutes away. We stayed on the phone for 17 minutes. So he is super late. He like, but he was sweet on the phone. So then I get this text message halfway through the day and Julie's like, this guy has been awful. He's being really rude and being really mean. So I send the text, do you want me to come kick his ass? And also kick him out. If he's not going to play nice with the others on the playground, he can go. No, it's okay. I'll figure it out. So apparently at one point he comes like, like he's not, he can't follow the path of travel. He doesn't understand anything that's going on. I mean, he is, cause he's a good writer, but he's still not understanding what the hell he's supposed to be doing. So he comes, you know, he does something and Julie says, well, okay, that, you know, next time I really, I need you to stop here, do this. And he starts screaming at her and expletives. And, and I guess she finally was like, listen here. If you don't want to be here, if you're not enjoying the class, if you don't want your endorsement, then there's the door, goodbye. And she said, and you know, also knock it off. Like treat me with respect or get the hell out. Apparently, unbeknownst to her at the time when she turned around or when, oh yeah. Cause she turned around to like walk somewhere. He flipped her off. So she did not see that. Anyhow, he gets through the, he gets through the skills. He fails the written test and he's an asshole about that. Right? And so she sits with him. She sits with him and reads him the questions cause he's having issues reading. This is after being abused.

Robin: I would do this so condescendingly. I would read it like it was a fairy tale good bed night story. Right.

Armene: Oh my God. Number one, let's talk about. I wouldn't. I would say you failed. Bye. You've been a dick all day. I don't have to help you. It's not required. Right. Anyways. So he passes and we don't, we don't give a completion cards out day of class. We, I hold on to him. I make sure everybody's done their e-course. I make sure everything is filled out right. I make sure all the tests are right. And then I mail them in the mail. Well, his, his got lost in the mail. And anyhow, so he calls, he calls and it's so strange. Cause he leaves one message of like, Hey, I don't know where my card is. It hasn't shown up. And then three minutes later he calls and leaves us totally different message. What the hell is this? This is bullshit. I'm, I have no idea. Like he was, he was two totally different people. And so we call him back and say, I can mail you another one, or you can come pick it up from, you know, from me on Saturday, I coach a class. I'll come pick it up. This is bullshit. Blah, blah, blah. So he comes to pick it up. Well, I had left it in my car, in my backpack so that he and I could be pulled away from the group and we can have a little chat. Cause I was furious and I, you know, I took it out of my bag and I said, listen, if I would have known sooner, what actually had gone down that day, you wouldn't be getting this card, but I don't have at this point, my hands are tied. You've taken the written test. You've passed the writing test. It's legally now it's right. It's, it's a thing. I even called the state and said, can I just send this guy back his money and tell him to go pound salt? And they said, well, because he passed both the tests, I would just go ahead and give it to him.

Robin: So anyways, you got to tell him you need a role model.

Armene: Oh my God. So then I, so he lights me up and I am telling you, I have the names he called me in that moment. Like I haven't been called since middle school and high school. Holy shit. Oh yeah. I, I, I was just like, I, I can't say any of those here, but they were not nice. They were not kind. And what was so great is that a couple of the guys from the dealership next door, heard the way he was talking to me and chased him to his car.

Tim: Oh, that is epic.

Armene: It was great. He then gets in and wheels down the road. And he, he, you know, and I, and I actually told him the only reason I was giving, it's not good. I said, the only reason I'm giving this to you is because karma is a real bitch. And you want to ride a motorcycle, go ride a motorcycle. Anyhow.

Tim: Okay. So one of those guys that's going to get in a road raid, Jackson.

Armene: Oh, I don't know how he has made it 60 something years. I just couldn't. And I can't imagine talking to a woman in that way, let alone two women that way. But anyhow, that was that. Then three days prior to that, we have this student who he's one of the, he's like the class clown that thinks, I mean, he just makes a joke out of everything. And by the end of day two, the BRC, we have just like, we're all just sick of him. It's three women, right? It's Julie and I, and then we have a new coach who's doing some of her mentorship coaching. She's 21. He's in his mid forties. Anyhow, he's got three daughters at home. This all kind of plays into it, right? He has three young children at home. So Julie and I are setting up the code and we're having our other coach read the cards. And right before she starts reading, he says, hey, I got to talk to you about something. Do you want me to tell you this in private or do you want me to tell you in front of all the other students? And she's like, listen, I don't really have time for this today. Like, right, because jokes are, he's been annoying and saying stupid things. And it's, he's never had anything serious to say. It's all been these dumb jokes. And she's like, just go for it. What do you need, right? And he says something along the lines of like, you know, that rash I got isn't clearing up, is yours? Like, right, the rash, like the.

Tim: Yeah.

Armene: Like. What the fuck? Yeah. Okay. Oh no, but wait, first, I screwed it up. First, he says, I have good news and I have bad news. I have good news, I have bad news. And she says, okay, what's the good news? Well, I don't have any good news. Did you just throw up? Are you okay, Robin?

Robin: Oh, I did that spontaneously on the ice.

Armene: Okay, so he says, I have good news, I have bad news. Good news is, well, I don't have any good news. Bad news is the rash I got isn't clearing up, is your rash clearing up? And she doesn't know what to say. She's just like, anyways. So she starts reading the exercise and this is exercise five, where they go around in, you know, the, oh no, this is exercise, wait, is this five? Anyways, no. Yeah, anyway, whatever. It's where they go around in a circle. Oh, okay, this is 13, where they go around in a circle and then they line up for the swerve.

Robin: Okay, so they cross.

Armene: Okay, because they're going over obstacles. Yeah.

Robin: Yeah.

Armene: Okay, so I let, so they go and she tells me, like, this is what he said. And I could just feel like every, I just felt like the crawl up your neck of like, everything was thumping, right? And I thought I was gonna have a cardiac issue. And so I stopped him in the front of the line and I put my hand on the front of his bike and I said, hey, so I got good news and I got bad news. Did you kick him out? I said, the good news is, no, I asked her, I said, do you want me to toss him? And she said, no, but I want you to, you know, I want you to tell him to knock that off. So anyways, I said, I got good news and bad news. The good news is, I'm not gonna kick you out yet. The bad news is, you say anything like that ever again. Like, do not talk to us that way. Do you understand? Or you're gone. I was just trying to be funny. It was just supposed to be a joke. And I was like, that is disgusting. You're disgusting. I was like, she is 20 years younger than you and you have three girls at home. Would you want some pervs saying that to your daughters? I don't think so. Like, Jesus, what is wrong with people?

Robin: Yeah, it's a complex world. It's a frighteningly complicated world. Yeah.

Armene: But truly, like we haven't had any of that in the last three years, four years. This is our fourth season. The season's just starting. Everyone, I know. But I haven't had a single issue like that before. All of a sudden, these people are coming out of it.

Tim: I don't know, it seems like, you know, when you see public figures get by without any consequence for that sort of misogyny, it seems like it's given all these assholes a green light. Yeah. They're like, well, I can do that too. I can make that joke. That joke's funny to me. It made my beer drinking friends laugh.

Armene: Yeah.

Tim: And it's like, yeah, nobody finds it funny.

Armene: Yeah, and he was, I mean, he was totally like taken aback that I said anything, but I was just like, this is disgusting. You're making all of us uncomfortable and your jokes are stupid. Like, come up with something, you know.

Tim: Yeah, is he, you know, acting surprised that no one's ever told me this was bad before?

Armene: That's exactly what it seemed like. Like, oh, I always get away with these dumb jokes, but anyhow. Oh, fuck, I know. It's fine. It was good. It was all, it's, everything's good. I still love my job for the most part.

Robin: Well, the job is great. And when you separate yourself from it, it gets to be even better.

Armene: Yeah, but see, that's the thing. And I know she didn't, she didn't want to say it and she would probably deny it if I brought, I mean, I brought it up, but she would deny it. I think there was some fear. He was a scary looking dude. Like the, you know, the first guy.

Robin: That's the worst.

Armene: And when he, when we talked by my car, he carries, I mean, he had a gun on his belt and this person does not look like someone who has the self-control not to use it. And so I'm sure she felt some fear and like, they're talking about doing active shooter training for coaches. It's crazy what's going on right now. Like, so I think she didn't want to kick him out because she was by herself. I mean, you know, it's, and. Yeah. I don't know. And I think too, sometimes as a business owner, I especially feel like you worry about your reputation and you worry about, you know, Google review, you're like a slave to these reviews. Like you can't review a crappy student but they can review the hell out of you. And so I think oftentimes we're over accommodating because of, you know, because of that issue too.

Robin: Well, not everybody has the magic voice. If you don't have the golden response, then yeah, there's going to be a lot of trip ups. I guess I am fortunate in that I've got enough momentum that I'm not afraid of a bad write-up or a bad reading from a customer because I know that I can get, if I ask politely enough, I'm going to get three to five positive reviews from the rest. And then one in five, I'll take four out of five stars.

Armene: Yeah, I agree. And I think before we had 160 reviews on Google five-star, I would have, you know, now I care a little bit less, but in the beginning, you know, you only have five reviews and one person gives you a crappy one. It can like, it can be the end of.

Robin: It's just momentous, drastic situation. But at the same time, people also know.

Tim: I can think of that.

Robin: People know, they know when they look at the reviews that well, this person's getting 3.5 out of five. And then when they read the complaints, they can, you know, when they see all the, what's the type, the spelling issues. You just know. I'm glad this person's not riding a bike.

Tim: Yeah. Right. That sounds like my filtering of Amazon reviews is like, I go almost straight to the one star to see if they're idiots. Yeah. If they've got something like, like, no, this, this seriously, like I did everything I could. I talked to everybody I could. They wouldn't back it up. And it's a pile of shit product. Then I won't buy their thing. But, but yeah. Yeah.

Armene: I read an, I read an Amazon review. I think it's for like a banana peeler or a banana slicer or something. I spent hours, if not days reading the reviews because they were so funny. People are so funny. I just, I wish I had.

Tim: Some of those are great.

Armene: I wish I had half of the, you know, the wittiness that some people do.

Robin: I got this friend, Jason Morris. He's a coach out of Texas. And he posted something where he was just like, I'm getting sick of Amazon's descriptive text. Oh, here it is. Here it is. I'm about over Amazon. I'm looking for a two. I'm about over Amazon. I'm looking for pool table rail cushions. This is the description. The pool ladder rubber bumpers are very practical and can be applied in many places in daily life. You can give them to your parents, friends, neighbors, and others who need it. Strengthen your relationships. These rubber bumpers have a very clever design. The whole shape is a triangular column and there's a circular notch in the middle, which can be a good fit to the radian of the table, not easy to fall off. So.

Armene: Is it like one of those AI things? Like a robot wrote it?

Robin: Maybe more than likely it's just Chinese. You know, it might be a Chinese product.

Tim: English as your third language.

Robin: Yeah. English as your 17th language. And so we all commented that he needs to take pictures that represent that description in a way where like, it just brings the whole family together.

Armene: Oh, that's a good plan. Yeah. Are we supposed to talk about some motorcycle stuff? Well, yeah.

Tim: Yeah. This is your episode. I rode a motorcycle yesterday.

Armene: Oh no.

Tim: It was fantastic. Which one? The monkey. Oh. It was my first commute on the monkey. The scooter. So yeah, it was good. It was good. It was good. So today I just ordered a new saddle handlebars for it. So the pullback is a little too much. I am getting ones that are, you know, a little flatter. Yeah, they'll still hit my knee, but.

Armene: I sold my monkey for a Zuma. Don't judge me right now.

Tim: Oh, did you? Yeah. Those are both contenders. Ain't nothing wrong with the Zuma.

Robin: Oh, it's.

Armene: So wait, you had a monkey. What year was yours? 2022.

Robin: Okay, yeah. So it's like the new model mini bike, right?

Armene: Was it a sport touring monkey? It's so cute. It was, it was ABS monkey. I don't know if it was sport touring, but it was, it was darling. It was red. I bought it for my daughter cause she wanted a motorcycle and we thought she'd be commuting from school to work and home. And then we moved too far away for her to do that on a monkey. So, and then my school needed a scooter. So the monkey went, bought the scooter, but I did ride my, it's a scooter. I never thought I'd own a scooter.

Robin: Hold on, I'll reel this in. As it pertains to sport touring or is universal to motorcycling as a whole.

Armene: Let's talk about women's motorcycle gloves. No, I'm just kidding. I don't want to talk about that cause it pisses me off.

Robin: Well, why is that?

Armene: I had, I bought a new pair of Alpine star. Is it Alpine star? Or why have I heard people say Alpen star?

Tim: Which is it?

Armene: I heard Alpen star.

Tim: I go with Alpine.

Armene: Okay, Alpine star gloves. And my options were pink, hot pink, hot, hot pink and turquoise. And the only other pair that I found that were like acceptable were white and black, which were pretty cool. But they had that thing where the seams are sewn on the inside of the fingers and they were rubbing the bejesus out of my fingers. So anyways, I went with like hot, hot pink. I'm so pissed about it. It clashes with my motorcycle for one. And like I searched far and wide for a female glove with a gauntlet and the like the little webs on the pinky and the ring finger. It's like, it's like they don't think that we can ride. You know what I mean? So they give us these little girly gloves. It really, it really super pisses me off. But I took the Aprilia out and I forgot to check the air in my front tire. So I went rolling down. Yeah, the motorcycle coach didn't do the T clocks and I went rolling down the hill and very quickly realized that I had absolutely no air in my front tire. So that was fun.

Robin: Wow. But you recovered? Like didn't get out?

Armene: Yeah, I just rolled right into a gas station and filled it up. But I was like, you know, it was one of those moments where you're just like, why do I do this? I don't practice what I preach.

Tim: Yeah, I'm not super good at that.

Armene: I was just in a hurry.

Tim: Is it a motorcycle? Yes, check, let's ride.

Armene: I know, I'm so dumb. It was so dumb.

Robin: I do, I hear my confirmed that that thing has two wheels. Let's go ride it.

Tim: So going back to the gloves, are they gendered at all? Or are they just going by sizing? No, they're gendered. I mean like.

Armene: Like Alpine Stars has Estella.

Tim: Okay. Yeah. So like, I'm a person who always has a hard time finding gloves that fit my hands because my gorilla hands are really weird. You got drummer and bass player hands, man. My thumb is located very low on my palm for some fucking reason. So I end up with like. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I got gloves that never quite fit. Yeah. Right. And yeah. It's frustrating. So usually what happens if I get them that they're wide enough to fit my palms, the fingers are too short. Yeah. Which doesn't make sense at all to me.

Armene: Yeah.

Tim: It's so frustrating. Yeah. I don't know what is wrong with the proportions of my hand, but it's wrong. It's wrong.

Robin: You're either wearing spaghetti fingers or a boxing mitt.

Armene: And then also like the shoes, women's shoes typically suck. Like they're too, like I don't have wide feet. It's not like I have like a elephant print, but like they're wider than, yeah, they're wider than like, I guess some small teeny tiny lady person. And so I also then only have the choice of.

Tim: I have the same problem with that too. It's such a pain in the ass. I've got the big feet. I've got the wide feet. Yeah. And no one really makes a wide boot on purpose. Yeah. There are some that are accidentally wider than others. And there's a little bit of like people pass on in the forums, this one fits. And then you try it and it doesn't.

Robin: Is it sufficient to say then that this is like one of those areas where if we wanted to bring more people into the pronoun discussion, it's time to like ditch all that for the gear. Yeah. I want red gloves of these particular scale. Yeah. Brand make them not okay. And we've also set these, we have some parts bin builds of gloves over here that were just leftover material. There you go, ladies. And they're pink, you know, thumb up like your ass.

Armene: But it's the same thing with motorcycles. And Robin, you and I had been talking about, right? Me writing an article about the best motorcycle for short female riders. And I think I told you for whatever reason that really pissed me off and not at you, just at like at the fact that that is what is so highly Google searched. Because if I'm being really honest, like I've had classes where my female riders are really tall and my dues are really short. So why we've all been, you know, sort of trained to Google search female thing, right? Versus just like a short writer. It's all about the inseam is what's right. Like if you could be six foot four and if you have no legs, you've got no legs. That's it. So.

Robin: Right. One of the people that just signed up for sevens is eight foot 13. She's very tall, but the way her inseam is working, she's gonna be extremely comfortable on her full on sport bike for the entire tour because it just fits. She's got the reach and the legs to go with that profile. And I think that that is just math and why we take math and turn it into gender related purchase will never make sense when it could just be like what fits and gets the job done. Like whenever I shop for my own lingerie, I like to, I don't need to see men's, you know, men's body stocking.

Armene: I actually, I think we are moving away from that. Yeah. I think we are moving away from that. And it's slow and it's tedious, but I think we are going to get away from that eventually.

Robin: But it's funny. There's gotta be a lot of forgiveness in it. We need a lot of forgiveness as we go through the.

Armene: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there has been, you know what I mean? But I've even experienced like, you know, when I pull up to, well, when my husband and I ride anywhere together, they're sort of like, and you're on the back, right? I mean, Tim's great, but I can ride circles around him. He's still kind of on the newer side of riding, right? Because he's not a maniac. He doesn't ride. I mean, he's progressing like anybody else typically would. Just, right? You're a normal rider. But it's like, I'm like a rider on cocaine. Well, wait, maybe that didn't sound good.

Tim: Yeah, you are on the bike all the time.

Armene: If I don't have to be in a car, I'm not in a car ever, right? If I don't have to take kids somewhere, I don't care if it's 30 degrees out. I don't care if it had just snowed and it's sort of kind of cleared up. I am riding my bike. And so, I mean, I probably have 100,000 miles under my belt. I have the coolest thing to tell you. I actually met, you know, I sort of believe that the world just kind of works out the way that, like, right? There's lots of things that happen serendipitously. I met this gal, speaking of eight foot four, she's actually six five, and she's in the tech field. She goes by Lili James, and her YouTube channel is the Twirling Tech Goddess. And she's a CU graduate right now. Like, she's graduating this year, and she creates things that like, you know, like this headpiece on her dress that twirls and spins and does all these really cool things. It's all tech, right? But she's using it for, like, to make clothing. And so I was like, ooh, ooh, we should get together and figure out how to make something stronger than Kevlar, cheaper than Dyneema, lightweight, right? All this, like, let's work. So we're actually gonna, we're making this catcall clothing. We're moving it right along. Yeah.

Robin: Tim is your photographer, product by product. I can build your website. Awesome. And Travis can.

Armene: He can do my background music.

Robin: He probably, yeah, he could.

Armene: Yeah. Anyhow, so I'm working on it. And by I, I mean she. So it's gonna happen. It'll happen.

Robin: I believe you. I think it's gonna be wicked too.

Armene: I'm also gonna write a book this year.

Robin: Are you? I wanna do that.

Armene: That, go on.

Robin: Really?

Armene: Yeah, I'm gonna write a book. Very cool. I mean, honestly, my whole life, people have told me I should write a book because my life is so, like, stories that I have, people don't believe half of them. And everybody says, you should write a book. And then I kid you not, I was at a Chinese restaurant the other day and I got a fortune cookie and I opened it up and it said, you should write a book. And I was like, that's it. That was the sign I needed.

Robin: Yes.

Armene: I'm gonna do it.

Robin: Is there gonna be a theme to it? What system are you gonna use to write it? What's the process by which, what are you gonna do?

Armene: I'm as close to knowing all of that as I am to launching my first clothing line. I don't know. So we're getting close. I have no idea.

Tim: This is good.

Armene: Yeah.

Tim: This is good. Like, just start.

Armene: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah. And it's like, just start the momentum and the rest will come.

Armene: I talked to a ghostwriter who basically said, like, the last thing that you wanna do is say, like, this thing happened and then this other thing happened and then this other thing happened.

Robin: Yeah. No one wants a bullet list. So we have this amazing interview with Joanna Noble. She's pretty freaking wicked. I've hung out with her in a regular Zoom meeting that happens every week. And she really, she knows her noise. So we're gonna break right now to go to the interview with Joanna Noble, a relatively new writer who immediately took on like 300 miles right off the bat on a BMW GS 1250, disappeared into the horizon and now has hundreds of thousands of miles perhaps. Maggie interviews her. So take it away, Maggie.

Maggie: Joanna Noble, welcome. Can you share with the audience a little bit about yourself and how you got to writing and what you do, where you are?

Johanna: Just a loaded question. That's a big question. That's a big ask. All right. So my writing started out five years ago. I got, I only, five years ago. And I went and took a basic rider course like lots of other people. Jokingly in my household, we make jokes that I sent my daughter and my husband actually to take the class first. And it was just like a daddy daughter date kind of thing. But they all claimed that I had total nefarious reasons for getting them to ride so that I could learn to ride myself later on. And about a year later, I went and took my first basic rider course. I'd never touched a motorcycle in my life. Didn't have any of those influences from other people. So it was just really, it was really new to me. And I went and I took this class and I remember just being nervous as all get out. And yeah, I passed my class, like barely scraping past, you know, doing the box exercise that everybody gets nervous about. And I got my license and I walked into the DMV the next day and said, give me my license. They gave me my license and I got on the motorcycle that we owned at the time. And I rode 300 miles to go fishing.

Maggie: Literally. Wow.

Johanna: Literally to go fishing.

Maggie: Right out the box, right out the box.

Johanna: Right out of the box. I just, I did. I took the bike and I rode 300 miles through the mountain passes here in Alaska and went fishing. And the next day after my fishing tour, I loaded up panniers full of fish, all frozen and rode myself back home another three to 400 miles. It was like pouring buckets of rain. I had no idea what I was doing and I was hooked. I was so hooked. I just wasn't, it was something that I was just gonna do for the rest of my life and I knew it. So now I run around riding all over the place. I have done, I think I call it my 100,000 mile hat. I have a ball cap that I wear and I'm just coming up on 120,000 miles that I've ridden in the last four summers. The first summer of my license, after I got that, after I did my fishing trip, I went on the first summer, I went and I bought myself a new motorcycle. New to me. Found it in the middle of nowhere, Alaska. Bought a Suzuki Vstrom. And I looked at my husband and I said, hey, so I'm thinking of doing a motorcycle trip. And he goes, so what are you thinking of doing? And I said, thinking I'm gonna go travel for like three months on a motorcycle. And he just looked at me and he went, are you crazy? And I said, nah, let's go do it. I'm gonna do it. And he goes, well, when are you thinking of doing this? Like next year? And I said, no, I'm thinking I'm gonna leave like next week. And he just looked at me and he goes, what? And I said, yeah, yeah, I think I'm gonna leave next week. So I called the school where I was working. I called my sister and I said, hey, I'm gonna go do this motorcycle trip. And I literally got on the motorcycle 10 days later and rode out of the state of Alaska into Canada. Had, again, it was like, obviously I'm a bit of a junkie and I just go and do crazy things all the time, but it was just one of those things. And I did, I rode 35,000 miles that year. That three and a half, four months, I did 35,000 miles traveling. I had hit like 10 states and then Western United States and I camped the whole way. I did national parks, camping, and just got out there and just rode and just met new people and experienced lots of cool stuff. And it was, I was a brand new rider, brand new rider. It was the most phenomenal experience of my life. Just getting out, figuring out how to get tires because I had no idea. I didn't know how to change a tire. I didn't know how to do anything except I knew how to get on the bike and how to ride it in that direction. And that's what I did. No GPS, I just did everything off of maps and just went and went gangbusters and camped all over the place.

Maggie: People that are listening, just digest on that for a second. Joanna in her first year, 35,000 miles out the box does a trip, a long distance trip out of Alaska. First of all, let's relap back in. You live in Alaska. I live in Alaska. A big, rugged state. Then you go into Canada, another large, rugged territory and you just figured it out. You just camped. And you had no previous experience riding. So this is only just five years ago. You just put to shame probably, I don't know. I don't know. How many, 90% of our- I guess.

Johanna: So to say I got a little obsessed about riding might be an understatement. Might, just a little bit.

Maggie: Did you document pictures, video, anything?

Johanna: I did. I took pictures. You know, it was like the old, I didn't have cameras on my helmet. I didn't do that stuff. You know, it was just like riding down the road going like this, hey, selfie. You know? So it was just, and everywhere I stopped, every night I would stop and go and we would, I would go and I would hike. I would go and find a lake, find something and go hike and just go see what was there. What was there? You know, I just would pick where I went and every morning I'd get up and I'd look at the map and I'd go, well, which way am I gonna go today? You know? And it's the most ridiculous thing. And I, even to this day, I still love that I did it. Still love that I did it.

Maggie: I think it's amazing that you did. I love that you did it. That sounds really inspiring. And I love that you, yeah, I love that you did it. And you know, you mentioned something before, you had no bad habits or no influences because you were new to riding. And that probably was a good thing for you in this sense. You know, you didn't have any preconceived notions and you just kind of figured it out. And guess what? You survived. You're back. You're here.

Johanna: I did survive. I did. The only reason it's the story that I don't, the story is that, you know, the only reason I stopped was because I had a head-on collision in Utah. So yeah, I was coming through, I was coming through a traffic situation and I looked at it and I was behind a big box truck and this big box truck pulled out and I gave him space. And then all of a sudden, a Ford Taurus swerved, came into the lane of traffic that I was in, in a construction zone and hit me head-on. And I wedged the bike underneath the car and I went over the car. So I tell people I slid the hood like Daisy Duke, but not near as cute, but just. So after that, I packed up and spent a few months in recovery. I didn't have any broken bones, didn't have anything, because I am an ATGAT girl. I wear all of my gear and it was 105 that day and I still wore all of my gear. I was sweating buckets in my Gore-Tex and crashed. And then went home, came home to Alaska, recovered. And then six months later, I was back out on the road again. With part of the Women's World Relay. So yeah, I do a lot of stuff. But it was a great trip. I wouldn't trade that crash scenario. I would never trade that, even for all of the miles that I got to do, riding that and having that experience.

Maggie: What is the Women's Relay?

Johanna: Oh, so a few years back, there was a program out there, was called the Women's World Rider Relay. And there were women from all over the world that they had a baton and a flag and they literally were riding it from one country to another. Ended up crossing over into multiple countries, came here to the United States. And in the United States, we created another program side-by-side with it, which was called the Ripple Relay. And that Ripple Relay was to travel a baton and a flag to every state in the United States. And they were coming to Washington and I said, wait a minute, what about Alaska? And they said, no, no, no, it's too far. We're not going to Alaska. And I went, the heck you're not going to Alaska. So I bought a bike in Washington State, literally flew down there. And all these women came from the World Relay and the Ripple Relay, and they met me in Washington State and they crossed me over into Canada. And then I took it and ran through four provinces and territories in Canada, ending up in Alaska with that relay and then took that baton and then we transferred it over to Hawaii.

Maggie: That sounds awesome. So they do it every year or?

Johanna: No, they don't. It was a big undertaking. And it's one of those things that we're all talking about whether or not we're going to bring it back again, because we really were wanting to make it so that it happened in every country. But there are obviously some countries that women weren't allowed to ride in. There were countries that Americans can't cross into. So what we were trying to do is find women from each country to come to the border and pass off that baton to. So when Canada needed it, it traveled all the way through Canada and then it came into the United States and then they took it and they traveled it down through South America. Yeah, it was super cool. And that was one of the bigger instigators to me deciding to look towards doing things in the motorcycle industry for work. So it was a big empowerment moment for a lot of women all around the world. It was just phenomenal. It brought riders together from all walks of life and in all socioeconomic classes and races and everything to just get out there and really empower women. And it was one of the most phenomenal experiences in my life too.

Maggie: It sounds amazing.

Johanna: I am going to send you the Facebook. Yes. I'll send you the links for it. But you should look it up. I know that it was also Haley who ran the program and started the program in England. She was featured in, I think, the American Motorcyclist magazine. So definitely something for you to check out.

Maggie: Yeah, I had no idea.

Johanna: All the things that Max gets to learn from the weird coffers of Joe's brain.

Maggie: So you said that you came to motorcycling five years ago. So not a long time, but you don't sound or talk or ride like someone that's only been riding a few years because hearing just a couple of the things you've already done is amazing. So tell us some more about other big rides and trips.

Johanna: Well, I've done lots of other cool stuff. I am one of the women in the United States that has actually done the 48 States in 10 days, the Ironman Association thing. Yeah, so I did that. Two years ago, I did that one. A friend of mine, Carrie Miller and I went and did the 4810. We started over in the East Coast and rode all 48 States in 10 days. That was a big challenge that she and I just wanted to just prove that we could do it. It was just like a, hey, let's just do it. I do those 1000 milers that they have available, things like that. Generally in the industry, if somebody says, hey, Joe, we need this, I'll go, can I ride there on my motorcycle and come to that? So I've had a dealership up in Minnesota that I've done a lot of cool things with. They took me, last year I got to go and I rode to Minnesota and they took me and took me to the American, the motorcycle races. What are they called? Those big Moto America. I got to go hang out at Moto America. That was amazing. I've never got to see that stuff before. So I actually sat and hung out with a lot of the different riders. I got to meet a lot of different racers and things like that, that were over at Moto America. That was so cool for a nerd coming out of Alaska that doesn't get to experience a lot of those things. We don't have all of the track days. We don't have all of those things that people have or even have access to easily. And when I say easily, that means like within seven days of being able to get there. Because for me, if I want to go anywhere, it's either by a flight or it's riding through Canada to get somewhere. So that's probably what started the desperation of getting out of Alaska was the desperation for me being willing to ride long distances to get places. So last summer I got to do that. And then after that I went and I got to be part of a program out there. It's called Moto Relief Project. So Moto Relief Project is PTSD and PTSD clinics. For first responders and combat veterans or veterans in general. They run rides every, gosh, almost every two weeks during the summer. And you go there for a week and they take you and they run some of the rides that they do are through Colorado back country or Arizona. And they take you and you ride for a week and you get to meet other veterans and do cool stuff together on motorcycles. So that's part of my summer last summer was doing that. And then running some of their routes so that I could see what other routes are that they have that they typically use in Arizona and in Colorado. And so I've been going and doing different things helping Moto Relief Project work with veterans with PTSD which is really cool. Yeah.

Maggie: This started out with you sending your husband and daughter to ride. Are they as avid riders as you are?

Johanna: For being in Alaska? Sure. It's terrible to say, but I don't find, I don't find as many people as I'd like to that go out and do the amount of crazy things I do. I am working on my third, fourth state BDR. My husband has wonderfully been able to go and do one but I'm working on my fourth since I did portions of Colorado last year, Arizona, New Mexico and Wyoming. So I've been kind of working my way through some of the BDRs by going and taking trainings and then doing tours along with them with other riders that are out there. So there are great companies out there that provide that kind of support. For somebody like me coming out of Alaska not having readily accessible trainings or not knowing that territory, that's how I get to do that. So going out and finding these tours and groups that will go and do the back country and camp and do the crazy things that I'll do. That's what I do. And it's a lot of fun. I just have a great time doing it.

Maggie: Yeah. And this is on the side or this is your full-time thing now, motorcycling?

Johanna: No, I tell everybody right now, I'm fun-employed. I'm fun-employed with a lot of F-words. I don't usually, I tend to get to ride a lot during the year just because I come out of state and I go to AIM. I do help work with a couple of dealerships up in Alaska. So I do get the opportunity to go to AIM. And then in my off season from what I do as a motorcycle instructor, I then go and take extra trainings and as many trainings as I can. And I do advocacy work with the state of Alaska now to advocate rider education and training. And I just get opportunities where I just sit down and go, hey, I'm gonna go do a tour and I'm gonna throw a training with it. That way I can improve my skills and gets to see all of these really cool and beautiful places in the United States. And then as somebody calls and says, hey, Joe, we need you to go and attend this event for motorcycle awareness over in this state. And I go, sure, let me just hop on the bike and I'll ride over there. And they go, no, no, no, you can fly. And I go, no, no, no, I can ride. So I take an extra 24, 48 hours and zip myself across the United States in order to do it. It's a lot of tire wear, but it's still a lot of fun. But I do the trainings and I do the tours on the side during my off season from being an instructor.

Maggie: So far, what's been your best trip, your favorite trip? What was the best trip you've done?

Johanna: Wow, I will still say that first opportunity.

Maggie: That first one, yeah.

Johanna: Yeah, I'll still say that that was, cause it was just really just trying to figure it out and just taking the time to do anything that I wanted to. I didn't have to worry about my kids. I didn't have to worry about the dog. I didn't have to worry about the cat. All I had to do was call home every now and again to the husband and say, hey, I'm not dead. But it was for me to get out and see the different cultures that are across the United States. And that was just a phenomenal trip. Don't regret it, not one bit.

Maggie: You just went out on your own. You had to figure it out. You didn't have any fears at all. You're just one of those people that's like, I know I'll figure it out.

Johanna: You know, there were times when anxiety would push up and you just go, what am I doing? And I'm like, I'm out here, I'm unsupported. At one point, I decided one time I was in Moab and that was, I was down in Moab and I saw the, there's a big set of chicane. I'm trying to remember what the name is of this pass that goes down into Canyonlands and it goes down to the White Rim in Canyonlands. And it's this big dirt track that's down there. And you think, oh, okay, it's a dirt track. Hey, you know, it's a Vistram, I can do that, right? It's a Vistram, I can do that. And I get to the gate and I look at the person running the gate and they're like, yeah, I don't think you should do that on a bike. And I had, there was this guy with me and he was from Argentina and he was on a KLR and doesn't speak any English. And I'm like, I don't care, it doesn't matter. And he decides that he's gonna go down that. Oh yeah, I'm just gonna follow that dude. I'm gonna follow that dude. They're like, no, if you crash down there, we're not gonna come save you. And I was like, well, can't be that bad, right? Can't be that bad. I'd never been on the dirt before. I'd never experienced riding in sand before, none of that. And I thought, I'm just gonna give it a whirl. So I go and I start riding this long track that keeps swerving back and cutting back and forth across the cliff faces. And every time I hit sand, I'd never ridden sand. I'd hit the sand and it'd just go, and I'd fall over. And I'd get back up and I'd ride down and I'd hit the next corner and I'd go, sand, and I'd fall over again. And it just kept doing that. And I did that the whole way down. It was the most ridiculous thing ever. And then I went and I got to the bottom and I was standing there and I'm like, that was the craziest thing I've ever done. That was just crazy. I came down here unsupported. It's not like I can get fuel down there. There's no rescue services. Even if you've got a garment, even if you've got all of your beacons, it doesn't matter. They're not coming to get you. And I said, well, ride the rim. So I went out there riding the rim and the rim is all calcium. And you go and you ride around it. That's why it's called the white rim. And it's all calcium and you go ride around it. And if you fall to the left, it's calcium. If you fall to the right, it's iron oxide. So I get done riding this whole thing. I come back up that hill, get myself all the way back up. Again, never having ridden sand. I was filthy. It was crazy. I was bruised. I was banged up. Everything was broken parts on the bike. It was just, it was crazy. It was insane. I get up to the top and I ride back to the campground where I'm gonna stay and I get there and there's this Argentinian guy. His wife and a whole bunch of other people that I've come across and met. None of them speak English. I don't speak Spanish. I don't speak any of the languages that they're using because some of them are from all over the place. And I ride up and I get off the bike and they just look at me and they just start laughing. The biggest laughter I've ever heard in my life. And I'm just standing there and I'm going, what? And they're like, broke bike. I'm like, yes. They said, mirror. And I went, okay. So I go walking over to the showers, right? And I still have all of it. I still have all my gear on. And I wish that I had gotten a picture of it because as I'm standing there looking at myself in the mirror, the left side of my body is all white and the right side of my body is all red. And this woman is standing there in the showers and she comes out, she looks at me and she just gives me this like shrieking little thing. And I go and I walk into the shower, full head, toe gear, all of my gear still on. And I literally walk into the shower and I just turn it on and I just stand there and I just rinse, and everything just comes out. And I walked back out of the shower and this woman is looking at her child and she's saying how ridiculous it is that she's speaking in another language. And she's saying, it's so ridiculous that this person just came in here in the full motorcycle gear and rinsed off like that. And it happened to be my native language. So she was saying this in Dutch and I was laughing at her and I took off my helmet and I looked at her and I responded to her in Dutch. And I said, there was no other way for me to get all of that clean. And then she and her daughter just started laughing. She goes, you're a woman. And I said, I am. And she goes, you're filthy. And I'm like, I am. She goes, did you have fun? It was like a 10 year old girl. She goes, did you have fun? And I said, I had so much fun. And after that, like the next two days in the campground, that little girl and that mom would come over and every day go, so what did you do today on the motorcycle? And at that point, you go, oh my gosh, look at what I can do to influence other women and girls to get into doing exactly what we have the joy of doing most days of our lives. And it was worth every minute of it.

Maggie: I love that attitude. You weren't thinking about, oh shit, look at my bike. Oh shit, I'm dirty. Why did I do that? You were all like, oh, I should clean off. I should not be red on one side and white on the other. That's alarming people. I'm gonna go buy some epoxy. Yeah, I love that he just walked into the shower like, okay.

Johanna: Yeah, and I think that that's the biggest thing with all the travels that I do. If I stop at a gas station, if I stop at a national park, if I stop somewhere, it doesn't matter where I stop. Soon as that comes off. And now, as soon as people see the helmet that I have, they go, oh my gosh, you're a girl. And they come over and they start talking and asking questions. It, women, women always come over and go, I'm so impressed that you're doing this on your own. They see me come barreling past them. They're in their cars and they see me come barreling past them and I have my little devil horns on or my ears on now and they come past and they go, oh my gosh. And they stop when they see me at a rest stop or at a gas station as I'm standing there at my motorcycle eating a protein bar. And they go, oh my gosh, you're doing this all by yourself. And I go, I do, I do this all by myself. I am very blessed to be able to do it. My husband is really good about, he's okay with me going and traveling like that. My kids don't ride as extensively as I do, but they both are so supportive of me going and riding and doing the crazy things that I do. And they enjoy the photos. They enjoy seeing what I do. They eventually got me a camera that I put on my helmet and I have to record footage and send it to them. But I do, and I get people from all over just going, it's just so impressive that women are out there and doing this. And I try to make myself approachable these different places so that women can understand that they can do it. And I tell women all the time, I said, I don't care if you're gonna go in your car. I don't care if you're gonna go in on a motorcycle, just get out and go see this beautiful country we live in. Go see it, go learn the different experiences that are out there. Go learn about the different cultures that are out there and just experience it no matter what. But of course, if you can do it on a motorcycle, do it on a motorcycle, it's always worth it, always.

Maggie: May I ask how tall you are?

Johanna: I am 5'11".

Maggie: Okay.

Johanna: I'm a tall girl on a tall bike, bought a tall bike on purpose, not for me because I'm the short one in my family. Oh, well, you are Dutch and I know Dutch people are, yeah. So my daughter has a 37 inch inseam. My husband has a 36 inch inseam. Holy cow. My son has a 34 inch inseam. So my 33 inch inseam, when we were looking at the first motorcycle we were gonna buy, I looked at bikes and I went, oh my gosh, my daughter won't fit that. Or my son, my husband won't fit that. It's too small, it's too small, it's too small. And that's how I ended up on an adventure bike. So the first bike I bought was a KLR. It has a massive inseam to it. And it was almost too tall for me. It is really tall. And for me, I have to tiptoe on the KLR. And so we bought the KLR because we wanted something that was super durable and that we could all crash on. Cause we knew we would, right? We knew that as new riders, that was most likely to happen even with training. But we really wanted something that was gonna be tall enough for all of us to fit on. Cause we were all gonna be sharing that bike. So that's what we got was our first bike was a KLR. You know, tall bike.

Maggie: That's a fun bike. Not that I've ridden one, it looks like fun.

Johanna: It is a super fun bike. It is, I work in shooting sports and I often say that KLR is the AK47 of the motorcycle world. You can take it in the water, you can dunk it everywhere. You can do all kinds of things with it. You can beat the snot out of it and it'll still function. So the KLR is what we started with. We just figured that was an affordable, good sized bike that would fit any of us that are taller like that. So that was the first bike we got. And then I bought the Vstrom. That was the next one. And then when I totaled the Vstrom, I got myself a Triumph Tiger and found on a BMW GS. So I tend to be, I'm a little hard on my bikes with this much mileage. I admit it. I'm a little hard on my bikes.

Maggie: 125,000 miles you said?

Johanna: Yeah, this summer I'll top out. I'm guessing that the summer I'll finish out with 130, 140,000 miles. I might hit 150 if I nudge it a lot. Depends on how much I get out of state and how many cross countries I end up having to do this year for other stuff. So yeah, it's a crazy amount.

Maggie: What is the plan for this year, this summer?

Johanna: So in, well, tomorrow I'm getting on a plane and I am flying into Salt Lake. I have a bike that's currently parked in Salt Lake and I will take that bike and I head up to Idaho and I'm doing some training classes up at Idaho. And then from there, I am zipping down to Arizona and I'm meeting some friends that are with the Moto Relief Project. And we're going to go and run some tracks and some trails, put down some video footage for promotional use for Moto Relief Project. And from there, I will go up to Colorado and I have some work to do in Colorado. We'll see what kinds of shenanigans I can get into. There's a couple of things there that I, last year as I was riding through Colorado, I crashed my bike. And so there's a goal that I have to get it through one of the passes that are there. So I have to see if that pass is available and I'm going to go do it. I'm going to go do it. If it's not available, then I'll come back to it again. And then I'm coming back home and working with a local ride program to get new rider coaches certified. And then I'm going back out in June for the BMW MOA over in Virginia. So I'm going to be going there with Moto Relief Project to do some stuff for them and meet my friends from Just Ride 5, one of the moto clothing companies that's out there for women. There's some great friends of mine that run that. So I'm going out to the MOA with them. And then I have lots of other shenanigans that I really want to be riding. I'll be doing a project. We have some women's rides coming up. They need people to come and wrench on bikes and get them all prepped for riders that come in. Because when people come to the project, we provide all the bikes. We provide lodging. We provide everything that they need for the entire week. All they have to do is get there and it's all paid for. And so that means we have to do all that bike maintenance, right? So I'm going to go down and wrench a whole bunch of bikes. I'm going to wrench on some bikes, travel around, have fun. That's the name of the game, right? So that's why I say I'm fun employed. That's why. Unemployed, that's about all I got right now. But a lot of my other travels also include me going and doing things for, I'm also a rifle instructor. I coach Olympic development, shooting sports in the state of Alaska. And so a lot of my other travels include me going and working with other people that are out in the shooting sports community. So I stay pretty busy. I stay busy.

Maggie: Sounds like it. I love that you, as much as possible, you ride to your destinations, even if it's across the country, you're riding. So commuting doesn't seem to even exist in your world. It's just a ride.

Johanna: I commute to the motorcycle range where I work, which is like 10 or 15 minutes from my house. But I tell people, I said, if you want to go and ride 15 minutes to go get a cup, a thing of ice cream, I'll go with you to do that. If you tell me that you want to go and punch down a thousand miles, yeah, I'll go do that, sure. If you tell me you want to go and do some off-road work, car stuff, and you want to go and ride some dirt, some gravel roads, I'll go, sure, I'll do that. If you tell me you want to ride to the Arctic Circle or you want to ride up to the Arctic Ocean, I'll go, sure, I'll do that. You tell me you want to go from the Pacific to the Atlantic, I'll go, sure, I'll do that. At this point, I just look at it and I go, whatever shenanigans somebody is willing to look at me and go, Jo, let's go do a shenanigan, I will go and ride shenanigans. I think it's, when you guys sit down and talk about being obsessed with riding, I have definitely hit that obsession level in what I go do, and I love it, and it is so much fun.

Maggie: You preemptively answered my last question, which is usually, what is your riding obsession? You've already answered it, so I don't have to ask that now. It's, yeah. It's all of it. Yes.

Johanna: Whatever I can do, you just tell me, and I'll see whether or not I can fit it in my docket and whether or not I'm crazy enough to do it, whether or not I have enough tread on my tires to do it. There you go.

Maggie: I love that people just, especially females, come up to you and they're inspired, and they see you on the bike, they see you doing things that you don't see a lot of women do. Not that there aren't women riders, there are. I have to say, the majority of the female riders are the women riders that I see are on cruisers. I can understand. I have a naked bike, a little tall for me, but I'm 5'2". I could use a couple more of those inches, but I'm not, so I have a different issue. But regardless, just going for it and knowing that it's gonna be okay. Not that this is about class and instructing, but the thing that I see with people that struggle in basic riding courses is they're afraid of falling. Well, sure, but it's gonna happen. Sorry, it's gonna happen. And it's the slow stuff. If you can master that, you'll be better off because it's not as hard to get going and get some speed. That fear of falling, and here you are, you rode over sand, fell over, got back up, rolled over in sand again, and I've done that, by the way, too. I was going to park the bike, and I was turning, and then I hit sand, and I was going a little too slow. I don't know that would've mattered if I was going faster because I hit that sandbar. I was like, burp, fell over. Anyway, and you just kept picking yourself back up and getting back on the bike. I think that's the biggest lesson in everything is anything that has happened to you that wasn't planned, that you did not say, okay, I plan to fall here. You just got yourself back up, dust yourself back off, and got back on the bike.

Johanna: That's exactly what has to happen every time. And it's not that when I started riding, I wasn't fearful of falling. I was, but I went into it and just said, you know, I have a great bike, right? The bikes that I've had, and when you go from a KLR to a Tiger, and to a Vstrom, and to a bike, to a GS, and that's, I had a GSA, now I'm on a GS. It sounds really awful when I say that's how many bikes I've been through. But when you look at these things, and in the adventure riding world, we look at it and go, you're going to fall, right? So we teach you how to fall with style. And we purposefully sit down and go, you are going to fall. You're going to hit those sand traps. You're going to hit those things. And as soon as you do, get on the bike, do your Captain Morgan, and be proud of the fact that you are getting back up again. So the times that I have fallen down like that, I just stand there, and I know that I look at it, and I look at the bike every time, and I go, ah, okay. And I self-assess what on earth happened. Or I look at the people that are around me and go, so what did you see happen? Because that was just like crazy stuff that just happened, right? And they go, yes, that was crazy stuff, Jo. We don't want to see that again. And I go, okay. And I do, I get back up on the bike, and I'm a big girl, right? You don't see it. Most people aren't going to see it through a podcast. I'm a big girl. I'm 5'11", but I'm not a featherweight either. And I'm a big girl, and the other joke that I make a lot of times is bumbles bounce. So Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, the big, puffy, white guy, he throws himself off the cliff, and he comes back up, and he bounces back up, and he starts doing all of his bumble stuff again. That's me. I fall down, and I get myself back up, and I go, bumbles bounce. And I say it almost every time, bumbles bounce. And I hop back up, and I lift up that bike, and I look over the bike, and I go, okay, let's go try this again. Let's go do this again. Because there is nothing that a bike fall, a bike fall shouldn't be the reason that you stop riding. I had a head-on crash, for goodness sakes. I didn't stop riding. I went off a 30-foot cliff. I didn't stop riding. I went off a 10-foot embankment. I didn't stop riding. I've done all of these crazy things, and I would not trade a minute of any of that. I wouldn't say, if you could take away my crash, I would just stop riding. I would not trade a minute of any of that, because there are so many places that I've gotten to see, so many places that I've been able to go to on a motorcycle, traveling around, that I would have never done if I hadn't have done it on a bike. And that bike, that bike is my lifeline to the outside world. It is my lifeline to adventure, and that's what I've used it for. And that's the whole thing behind all of this. That's what it all comes down to, that session, right? That's the fun part of all of it. I don't care about the crashes. The crashes don't stop me. We just keep going. Bumbles bounce.

Maggie: I'm gonna steal that one, bumbles bounce. Bumbles bounce, yeah, and it's so much fun. Did you say you went off a 30-foot cliff?

Johanna: Yeah, yeah. I wondered if I've got that helmet laying around somewhere. I probably do. I did, I was, I took a training last year in April, and the end of the training course, the instructor that I had, and myself, he was really fabulous, and he said, let's go. Says, Joe, you're in a place where you're really competent in what you do. And he goes, let's go, let's go, just have fun, right? We left a lot of the other people that were training to the side, and he took me off into the other parts of the track, and we went and did stuff. And we were finishing up, and I was on a downhill slope coming down, and it was a pretty steep little embankment. And the rider that was in front of me, he slowed down just a little bit, and when he slowed down, I moved forward onto the brakes, and I did a grab, not a squeeze, right? Which ended up popping my throttle a little bit. And right at that opportune time of popping my throttle, I was in a sand pocket, and it spun the bike 90 degrees. And when it spun the bike 90 degrees, the bike and I went off the side of the cliff. So as I was going off, I took the bike and threw it away from me as much as I could, thinking maybe I would stay on the cliff side, and I didn't. I hit the edge of the cliff. The bike was already going down in front of me. I hit the edge of the cliff, and then I proceeded to fall down the 30 foot. So it was a 30 foot straight drop down to the bottom. I remember tumbling a couple of times. My helmet was just absolutely destroyed, but again, I had all of my gear on, and I hit the bottom, and I remember just laying there, and I started counting my fingers. And I was going one, two, touching each of my fingers, and people came running up from everywhere because there was a training course that was underneath that cliff where I fell. And so the training class was down there. It was about 30 students in there. And I started touching my fingers, and then I started wiggling my toes inside of my boots. And I went to go and detach my helmet. By then, all the guys had run up, and we're going, no, no, no, don't do anything. And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm okay. And I detached my helmet, and I stood up, and I took it off, and I just stood there. And the whole class just stood there staring at me. And it was rather traumatic for them. I don't know what that looks like. I wish that I had had video footage of it. Everybody who was in the area, there were people living in their houses. They were sitting on their back porches, and they saw it. And everybody who saw it says, oh my gosh, that was one of the most traumatic things that they've ever seen. I was on a GSA at the time, and it completely totaled out the GSA. I mean, just mangled the crud out of it. And it totaled the GSA. My helmet was destroyed. I sent the helmet to Shuey, and Shuey actually took a look at the helmet and went, holy cow, all through the inside of the foam. The helmet was just, it's all cracked and destroyed. They sent me the helmet back with a new helmet. But it was just a real, it was a big crash. And I'm sure that for everybody who saw it, it was traumatic. The instructor that was riding with me, he felt awful about it. The instructor at the bottom of the hill who was training me, he saw the whole thing happen, and he was traumatized by it. And I went home, you know, went home, recovered, and then went back to that same training program with those same instructors. And I said, okay, so since I didn't make it out of my level one class technically, do I get to do level one again? And those poor guys, they were really good about it. And I came back into the level one course again, and they went, you really still can ride. And I said, well, I really could ride then too. And they're going, we just, they were traumatized, those poor guys. I really did feel bad for them, because even as an instructor, I can relate when one of my students even drops a bike on the thing, let alone somebody taking a 30 foot dive off of a cliff. And it was just, it was really traumatic for them. But I did, I took off the helmet. I stood up and I went over to the bike and I did my Captain Morgan on the bike. And I said, you MF'ers, you better take a effing picture. And they took a picture of me pointing up at the top of the cliff and going, yeah. So it was just, I mean, it was just when I got home and everybody just went, I can't believe, I didn't have any broken bones. I had some scrapes and bruises, but no broken bones. And we're talking about, it's a 30 foot, it was a 30 foot straight down drop. And I remember the air just going, just be Gumby, just be Gumby, jumpies, just be Gumby, right? Bumbles bounce. And I got to the bottom and I did, I unclicked everything. And I said, y'all, y'all better take your picture because bumbles bounce. And they took a picture. Everybody, all the cameras came out, like every camera in the entire training course came out. And neighbors that were out at their, on their decks that were out there, they all got in their cars and drove over because they all figured, and so did the class. They all figured that once I hit the bottom of that cliff, that they were not going to be coming upon somebody who wouldn't have any injuries. And I literally walked away from that crash, left the bike sitting there in the middle of the Arizona desert and walked away from a crash and came back to those training instructors and said, we can do this. You can trust me as a rider. I can trust you as an instructor. It has nothing to do with any of that. It just was a happenstance. It was just a crash. I know what happened. I won't do it again. Let's go and train again and let's go ride again. And let's go see this beautiful, this beautiful country that we've got. Every time that's what I do.

Maggie: I love that. That's the lesson out of everything. I think that anybody can take, anybody, male, female in life, let alone in riding. But I love that.

Johanna: Yeah, it's my overall philosophy. Get out, ride, have fun and just get up and do it again. Do it again and again and again and just enjoy it.

Maggie: So you were talking about, you need to update your Instagram. So you YouTube anything that people can follow your adventures?

Johanna: Oh my gosh. I, you know, I have saved hours and hours and thousands of hours. I've hundreds of hours of video footage, right? Because I do have a camera. I'm pointing at the camera on my helmet. I do have one. And I do take footage. And then I look at it and I'm like, oh, my ADHD brain goes, oh my gosh, that's a lot of editing.

Maggie: Yeah.

Johanna: I have footage from my 4810. I have footage from many of the rides, the BDRs, everything that I've done in the last three, four years. I have footage for all of it. I do have an Instagram. My Instagram is blackheartedrider. And I do have an Instagram. Yes, I'm on Facebook, like everybody else in their crazy self. I'm on Facebook and, but I was really bad about not putting all of my stuff up last summer from Instagram. So now I'm like going through and it's winter time. So this is the perfect time for me to make lots of these little updates. So downloading footage from all of my shenanigans that I pulled last year, I've got it all set on the computer. Now I just need to actually sit down and do all of the video editing. So do I have a YouTube? No. Do I need to? Yes. Cause everybody says, Joe, Joe, please. Really, I think what everybody wants is they just want the crash footage. That's really what everybody wants.

Maggie: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Of course people would be curious, but no, I think it'd be nice to see some of the footage of the things you're seeing that you can only appreciate on the bike. It's different when you're surrounded by metal, you know, in a car. You're getting into areas, again, that probably not a lot of people are like planning vacations around. There's a lot to see besides the big draws that families will often vacation in. Something you said also is, you know, getting out, seeing the beautiful country, meeting people. It sounds like there aren't aliens among us. It sounds like people are people. And we are of the same species, whether some of us like to acknowledge it or not. So I think that's another important thing that you said.

Johanna: I do, I trust people. I found that more often than not, as soon as I ride up on a motorcycle, people are always kind and always friendly. And they'll always look at you and go, so where are you going? Where are you from? And of course I have the benefit of having an Alaska license plate. So people always do the, oh my gosh, did you really come all the way from Alaska? And I go, not today. Sitting in Maine, in Bar Harbor, Bahaba. And somebody says to me, oh my gosh, did you really come all the way from Alaska? I go, not today. But yes, I did come all the way from Alaska. And they go, I can't believe you did it. And you just go, I know. So get out and do it too. I forget a lot of times because of where I live and living in Alaska is just such a sweet pocket that many people don't go to. And I think a lot of times I forget just how amazing even just Alaska is. And I get distracted as I'm riding and I just keep paying attention to everything, which is why I got the scene of camera for the helmet because then I'll go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta take a picture instead of me taking off my gloves and stopping somewhere and doing a lot of video and all of those things. So everything I have is video footage that's either on my phone or the bike as I'm going different crazy places and doing crazy things. And I was, please, please start showing us footage. And as I ride, people add into my Instagram or they come into my Facebook. As I meet people, they're always asking and they're going, hey, can we see what you're doing? And I do, I get feedback from people all the time going, oh, but you're out there and you're doing these amazing things. We just love seeing where you're going. And I just, I get overwhelmed with the amount of photos that, or even the video footage. The video footage is probably the most intimidating to me is doing the editing of that. I still, my plan was to take it and break it into a segment where it's like zipping through and making it so that I don't have, I don't know how many megabytes of footage, it was 128 SD card, but I have to break it down into sizable chunks. And yeah, I need to put it up onto YouTube. So eventually I'll get my Instagram and YouTube. That's the goal for the rest of this winter because it's still winter in Alaska. It's literally, I'm sitting here and I'm supposed to get a foot of snow tonight and I'm watching it snow as we're doing the podcast. So that's our winter activity, when it comes to doing all this.

Maggie: I can relate, when you've put off doing a thing and it keeps collecting and then, you think, oh God, that's a lot to do. AI tools are getting better and better. Some of the video editors can help with editing. Also, you've got kids, two of them.

Johanna: Well, I have something similar to what you have and that is a tech guy. Yes. Who can do my editing? It's just a matter of motivating said tech guy to do my editing. But yes, yeah, I know you're calling me on the carpet for it and I'm like, tumbles, bounce, I just need to get up and do it. I get up, tumbles, bounce, I just have to get up and do it.

Maggie: Okay, so people can find you on Instagram.

Johanna: They can, Blackhearted Rider is my Instagram handle.

Maggie: Soon, your YouTube and Instagram will be up and running.

Johanna: They will be, yep.

Maggie: I'm gonna have you recap again. What is your riding obsession?

Johanna: My riding obsession is getting out and seeing as much of this beautiful country as I can. I just love it and it doesn't matter if it's, doesn't matter if it's on the asphalt, doesn't matter if it's in the back country, doesn't matter if it's on a scooter, doesn't matter if it's on a GSA, doesn't matter what it is as long as I get the opportunity to go out and do it. So if that means I can do it on a track, I'll experience that, do anything and everything, will work for tires. That's my riding obsession.

Robin: And we're back.

Armene: Hey.

Robin: Welcome back.

Armene: That was amazing.

Robin: That is a great interview. So Joanna, lots of great stories to tell and amazing rider, but she's also a great young rider. one of those few writers where she's doing everything herself. Hold on. Look at Piper right now.

Armene: I don't want to talk about this. Oh, I'm wearing my daughter's.

Robin: I feel like I'm in junior high.

Armene: Listen, I just hijacked my daughter's ear.

Robin: That's going to be the featured image on this podcast episode. Please know Tim, his cover. The very first one is his leg in a cast with painted toenails. He ran over his own leg with a right.

Tim: No, it was an excess two to five. No, two to 50.

Armene: I mean, I just got my toenails painted. So if you want to take it, if that could be the cover instead.

Robin: I'm sorry. This is legal. This is it's you in those headphones hiding behind that pop filter. What do you guys think about this too? So we're going to do like a subset series with Brian Ringer, a little bit of just me and Brian. So Brian and I are planning. We're going to start a new sub series for the TRL podcast. It's just map planning. It's Brian isms. So they're going to be little stories told and map builds of specific areas. One thing we get with trip sevens is my knees are done at about 250 to 300 miles. My bike's sporty, whatever. So 250 to 300 miles. I'm like, that's my day. I mean, I can keep going. I've done 400, 500, 600. I can do it. I don't really want to. And then there are people that that like get halfway through the day and they're like, are we almost there? You know, a hundred miles in. I can't. I don't know. Like my knees just stop riding. What we're going to do is take every destination on the sevens tour and we're going to create a radius bonus route in that area. So when we arrive there, if anybody like Tim, he only takes breaks from writing to sleep, then he'll have more writing to do. Actually, I think Tim sleeps on the bike anymore.

Tim: While we're riding, I'm looking at like all these squiggly lines that go off up on the mountain ridge and go, oh, oh, that looks fun. Are we really? Oh, we're not going there, are we?

Robin: OK, we're not going to self-defeating. It's so something because the right. Do you know those roads are beautiful? It's like we're going on to a beautiful road. He's like, but if we do this beautiful road, that beautiful road next to what won't happen, I'm like, we just just right.

Armene: That's how I feel about group rides. Not not in general, but typically you get stuck with somebody who's going really slow. My bike doesn't go slow. So you got some big old bagger in the back. You're like, come on.

Robin: Yeah, we don't play that. Oh, yeah.

Armene: Like I've had my clutch in for the last four miles.

Robin: Yeah. Go. Yeah. Let me see if I remember my entire spiel from the Can-Am tours with the trip sevens tour logic in it. It's something like, all right, everybody gather around. Here we go. Here's what we're doing. The deal is this. Leave a minimum of a two second following distance at all times. It should take you at least two seconds to arrive at the same object as the rider ahead of you. That will change with speed. Everybody agreed. Not smile, not smile. All right, good. That stated, nobody is required to keep up. You are under no obligation to pretend like it's your responsibility to go as fast as the person ahead of you. In fact, I advise that you not do that. Is everybody clear on that? Not smile, not smile, not smile. You are responsible for the person behind you in a long straight, but you are not responsible for them at all in any series of curves. That's your time. Use it. Do what you will. Passing. This is the big one. This is what you triggered with me. When the time is appropriate and you're not going to startle the rider in front of you, nor are you going to create any kind of dangerous havoc with the traffic around you? Yes. Pass. And if you're passed, wave them by. Make the space make it happen. But passing is a good thing. It's a good thing to get around whoever it is that's in your lane. And that's why we only take five people on these tours. And so far, I've not yet been pushed by a customer, though I think that time will come where a customer is like, hey, Robin, you ain't all that anymore, you know? I just think that getting stuck behind somebody is either a sign that something's not being done right or the numbers are too big.

Armene: I think it's different when you're like going with with your friends on a group ride, you know, you don't have those like you have like this means gas and this means whatever, but you don't want to take it. You know, you know, and I've I've like in this particular group, I've I've become I've become known as like the person that just goes too fast and doesn't wait for their friends. So so now nobody wants, you know, to ride with me because they're all on these little slow bikes.

Robin: Well, I mean, they can you can do you wait for them at the next turn? Because that's the biggest thing. Are you waiting for them?

Armene: I'm like having tea like I'm like sitting outside. Like, you know what I mean? Like I've stopped. I'm like, I have found a nice restaurant. I've had an appetizer or two.

Robin: I understand.

Armene: It's not good. It's I don't think I don't. It's not possible to make certain bikes go that slow.

Robin: Oh, yeah, maybe.

Armene: If I want to burn my clutch, then, yes, sure. Right. I mean, I've ridden the Aprilia and the BRC, too. Will I ever do that again? Probably not. I had to replace my clutch immediately.

Robin: Yeah, that's not. Are you riding the rear brake at all? Of course. OK, you get it. I mean, of course, you really need to go on the seven store. I would love the seven store is fun.

Armene: Can it be in June? Wait, it can't be in July. That's the seventh month.

Robin: No.

Armene: OK.

Robin: You want to be in the middle of Tennessee in July? I don't.

Armene: Yeah. It's I go fast enough. It's my own personal air conditioning.

Robin: That that though. Well, yeah, let's see. What are we doing in July? I think in July I have a perspective tour around Lake Michigan, but that's I'm only in that for the month. No, no, you don't. Lake Michigan. Yeah, it's for the noobs.

Tim: It is not. No, Lake Superior might not be terrible at that time. Zoom in. Can't remember when the black flies hit.

Robin: Right. We do have the Wisco disco tour. That's going to be fun. What's a Wisco disco? Wisco disco is a Tim Travis Robin thing that you're definitely welcome at that we we've hodgepodge every year and turned it into a half day that should have been three. And it's just anything and what's called the dripless area of Wisconsin. So in our previous episode, we interviewed Dale Hoke, who is kind of a master of those roads. But I mean, he just knows the same roads we do. He just happens to be doling him out to people who needed access to him. Like we know those.

Tim: Yeah. When we go out, we just wander. He's actually like consolidating him into coherent rides that he can share. Yeah, cool. It's like you got half a day. Do this. Yeah. You have a three day weekend.

Robin: Do this. So Tim Travis and I will trade it up a little bit. I like to look for the double the double letter roads because they do an ABC. It's alphabet soup. So I'll look for the double letters. Travis will do a combination of the double levers and the hollows. And then Tim is like full on hollows, ridges. And what was the other one? He goat roads the hell out of it in a great way.

Tim: Yeah. I mean, there's a couple that I've got like if I'm in the area, they're just like magnets. I can't stay away. There's so such fun little roads. And a lot of times they're like 12 feet wide. I'll go to the shoulder and just, you know, surrounded by woods, surrounded by hills where you're always popping around a corner and seeing a new Vista or a cow or a goat. Something to keep you on your toes. I feel like I have learned that it's not I need to get a dual sport.

Armene: To hang out with you guys, don't I?

Tim: No, you don't have to. OK, I'm doing all of this on street time. He is. Oh, OK.

Robin: He's also a freak of a positive nature. A very I mean that as a serious compliment. The thing about the driveless area is that it's very hilly. So there's a lot of fun elevation changes. I understand you're in Colorado, but the deal with the driveless is that it's a section of the state, among other states, where it was is untouched by glaciers or it was the only part of the state that was correct. OK, so the glaciers didn't reach it.

Tim: Cool.

Robin: So hilly roads.

Tim: Yeah. So unlike unlike riding around Colorado where you've got great twisty roads, but they are the mountains are so big that going around them requires so much distance. Oh, yeah. But you've got that level of twisty. But there's just a hill between you and the next twisty road. Yeah. So is this just complicated web of roads out there? It's beautiful. So it's just you can link twisty road after twisty road all day.

Armene: I took a trip to Idaho a couple of years ago, and it was like that, too. Same idea. Yeah, a little bit. Right. It didn't take. Yeah, it didn't take long to get there. And we were just like, it was so much fun. Oh, my gosh.

Robin: I think that's where we're going. Are we going to? Here's Maggie Dean. Are we looking at Idaho? We're looking at Idaho, Utah, that kind of thing. We shall see.

Armene: Well, you guys should come to Colorado because Longmont, especially right where we moved out of is like the brew capital of the world. Like there are so many breweries and yeah, there's like distilleries and all that stuff. It's crazy.

Robin: But is it all IPAs? No, no. OK.

Armene: No.

Tim: And like, that's good. Madison went through a crazy, hazy IPA phase.

Armene: I can't stand where they were out doing each other.

Tim: No, me neither. I am I'm like a mellow oatmeal stout kind of guy.

Armene: Yeah.

Tim: Porter.

Armene: I, I actually like none of those.

Tim: You gotten into the sours? It's not.

Armene: It's the other thing. It's the ciders. That's what it is. And I don't like sours, but I like ciders. And we have this really cool cidery up the street. I know. So good. I hate IPA. I don't know whoever came up with that has no taste buds. They did some sort of study where people that like IPAs are like crazy.

Tim: Yeah, I'm going to send you the study. We've got a brewer close to here that has been putting out some of the best stuff I've ever had. So good in terms of hard cider. It some of it. You don't even realize that there is any alcohol in it.

Armene: Yeah.

Tim: It just tastes like spiced cider is fantastic.

Armene: Oh, I love hot cider, too, like apple cider. Do I need to pour a drink?

Tim: I might have a drink.

Armene: I got nothing here. I've got nothing. But the whole plan for coming to New Orleans was to like drink a lot and let our kids just like play in the pool, like good, responsible parents that we are, you know what I mean? Yes. And I haven't had anything. Nothing. Nothing.

Robin: You need to get out that door and have a date night and not a single hurricane.

Armene: Nothing. I know. That's what I said. This is I feel gypped a lot. I feel a lot of gypped.

Robin: Well, let's change that. Piper, it is our honor and pleasure to have you on board. Thank you for joining us for this. I'm glad that you said yes to being a part of this podcast. I hope that we'll be able to keep the schedule. And now that everything's more like fluid and nice job with giving Travis the covid thing. Well done. Like that mail order thing. That was perfect.

Tim: Sneaky, sneaky.

Armene: I know I it's I got some extras. I've got extra covids.

Robin: If you want me to send it to covid.com order online now. This has been awesome for TRO dot bike. I'm Robin Dean. I'm Tim Clark and I'm Piper. Same travels, everyone.

Tim: Good tidings we bring and also some gin because it's almost Easter and we are snowed in. We're doing this podcast tonight.